RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

since i haven't seen a basic rebuild parts list and seems when people have needed one they have found different results i will compiled a basic rebuild parts list containing most of the cheaper, simpler to get and reliable sets.

here is a few sites for rebuild kits and internal engine parts that have reasonable prices:

rotaryaviation.com
http://atkinsrotary.com/
mazdatrix.com


this is a basic fairly cheap rebuild kit option, one that i recommend:

1) rebuild and installation gasket set from mazdatrix.com

http://mazdatrix.com/b2.htm
86-88 Non-turbo 10-2710-8DF1 $181.85
Turbo 10-2710-8DF4 $317.28
89-92 Non-turbo 10-2710-8DF5 $186.27
Turbo 10-2710-8DF6 $351.03


2) front and rear main seals from mazdatrix.com

http://mazdatrix.com/b2.htm
front main seal 10-6050-0820 $4.33
rear main seal 10-556A-1668 $9.32

3) FD corner seal springs, you will need 12 of these, price from mazdatrix.com

http://mazdatrix.com/b3.htm
FD corner seal spring 11-C240-NF01 $2.67 each

4) inner and outer oil seal o-rings from mazdatrix.com, you will need 4 of each

http://mazdatrix.com/b3.htm
Small diameter for inners 11-3410-0820 $9.60 each
Large diameter for outers 11-3430-1202 $18.50 each

5) apex seals and springs from rotaryaviation.com

http://rotaryaviation.com/2_mm_apex_seals.htm
RA apex seal and springs $182/set

6) sealants

Hylomar HPF, available at your local parts store as well as some high temp RTV Ultra Black. you will need the hylomar to seat the comp. o-rings to the iron housings and all misc. o-rings during the rebuild. the RTV is used to seal the comp. o-rings to the aluminum rotor housings and your oil pan. you will also need some aviation compression sealant to seal the legs of the rotor housings to the irons.

basic price for a complete rebuild including installation gaskets for an 86-88 n/a is $521.54 plus tax and shipping not including sealants or fluids or other items listed below.


on top of this i recommend replacing your upper and lower radiator hoses, both heater hoses, especially the driver's side one and coolant lines to and from the BAC. replace all drive belts, fuel filter, vacuum lines, PCV hoses, spark plugs and determining their condition, your motor and tranny mounts. you will also need to pick up a new oil filter and thermostat, you can get these from mazdatrix as well.

for those T2 builders on a budget you can retrofit 13B n/a housings to work in your rebuild, use the same series engine housings and swap your exhaust port sleeves over to the n/a housings and take them to a machine shop, have 'one' housings coolant passage milled straight through to the coolant jacket and have them cut a recess to fit the o-ring to seal it to the LIM and use this rotor housing for the rear in your rebuild. Kevin Landers has a good writeup on this but i don't have it marked so if someone has a link it would be appreciated.


you can pick up videos from all 3 links i provided at the top of the page, IMO all of them should give you the basic knowledge to take on the project yourself.


anything i missed i'm sure the rotary police will bash me to death on, so will the biased kit builders.


good luck!

rwd

thanks dude

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

np, and if a mod feels like modifying the title to make it look not so much like a question i am ok with that. i'm no good with thread titles.

ddub

The gasket kit is cheaper from atkins for 86-88 NA fyi, for anyone that cares.

Example:
$130 for aftermarket 86-88 NA gasket set http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...9&cat=0&page=1
$179.95 for stock 86-88 NA gasket set http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...0&cat=0&page=1


EDIT:
Front and rear main seals are cheaper from atkins too.
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...2&cat=0&page=2
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...roductid=16623

FD Corner seal springs are cheaper
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...4&cat=0&page=2


Etc... I've noticed that atkins is cheaper than mazdatrix for some things, just in case people care remember to check atkins too

jhammons01

Karack, you forgot the side plugs needed. I added those but that only accounts for a$31 difference. As you can see below I have a larger difference when adding the parts you describe.

You both left out Rotary Aviation. This is the company that is selling Bruce Turrentines' rebuild kit as he does not sell direct to the public.

Tustin Mazda
Item Qty Part number Price Ext.
Gasket Set 1 8BF1-10-271C $247.27 $247.27
Apex Seal 6 N351-11-C00C $86.67 $520.02
Inner Rotor O-ring 4 0820-11-341 $13.10 $52.40
Outer Rotor O-ring 4 8341-11-343 $25.19 $100.76
SideSeal Spring 12 N326-11-C17 $2.18 $26.16
Corner Seal Plugs 12 N326-11-C22A $2.60 $31.20
Corner Seal Springs 12 1202-11-323A $1.30 $15.60
RR Main Oil seal 1 1668-10-556A $12.69 $12.69
FT Main Oil Seal 1 0820-10-605 $5.25 $5.25
$1,011.35
Tax 8% $1,092.26

Mazdatrix
Item Qty Part number Price Ext
Gasket Set 1 10-2710-8D5F $186.27 $186.27
Apex Seal 6 11-C00C-N351 $63.63 $381.78
Inner Rotor O-ring 4 11-3410-0820 $9.60 $38.40
Outer Rotor O-ring 4 11-3430-1202 $18.50 $74.00
SideSeal Spring 12 11-C170-N-326 $1.59 $19.08
Corner Seal Plugs 12 11-C22A-N326 $1.88 $22.56
Corner Seal Springs 12 11-C240-NF01 $2.67 $32.04
RR Main Oil seal 1 10-556A-1668 $9.32 $9.32
FT Main Oil Seal 1 10-6050-0820 $4.33 $4.33
$767.78
Tax 8% $829.20


Rotary Aviation
89-91 Kit $548.00
Gasket Kit 89-91 $48.00



Sub-Total $596.00
Shipping $50.00
Total $646.00

These prices include tax or Shipping for those in Cali

ddub

Eh, corner seal plugs arent always "needed." They become negligible parts of the engine even after a few thousand miles or so. The only reason I used them in my rebuild is it helped the installation of the apex seals and helped hold everything in as I put the rotors onto the E-shaft and into the housings. Really you could run with no plugs and be fine.

And yes I did leave out the rotary aviation stuff, because atkins is cheaper. When I was doing my rebuild I priced everything seperately from tons of different places and only bought the parts I needed rather than a kit. I found for what I needed if I bought everything seperately I got everything from atkins EXCEPT the apex seals and springs. I mean the gasket kit from RA is 247 bucks and atkins is 130 for the N/A aftermarket one.

Here's the list I used:

From atkins -
·86-88 N/A Aftermarket Gasket Kit #16259
·2mm Corner Seal Plug Set #16193
·93-95 Corner Seal Spring Set #16714
·13B 2mm Side Seal Spring Set #16187
·Atkins' Rotary Viton Oil Ring Inserts #16578
·Front Main Seal #16622
·Rear Main Seal #16623
·Atkins' Thermal Pellet #16401
·Hylomar Sealant


$ 130.00
$ 21.00
$ 27.00
$ 18.00
$ 39.95
$ 3.75
$ 6.15
$ 8.50
------------------------
$ 254.35 <---- without tax or hylomar sealant


Then the RA apex seals and springs are what $183 bucks right?


Oh that's another thing Karack, I didn't see anything on your list about a solid pellet or a new stock thermo pellet. It'd be a good idea to do either one when doing a rebuild.

jhammons01

NNNNOOOOOOo, the RA gasket set is $48 and the apex seals are in the kit that cost $548. The three kits I compared all have the same items. I could dig the side seal springs out of the garbage and reuse them but most say that they are so cheap spend the extra dough and replace them.

Karacks kit only omitted the side seal plug.

I'll check your list on the Atkins web site It does seem like a really good price. Thanks for the part numbers as well.

ddub

Ah yes I'm sorry I misread that. HOWEVER, as I read on RA's site, the installation kit does NOT come with all the o-rings, the water seals, or the tension bolt seals, which are all neede.

"This is the same kit that Mazda specifies for removal and replacement of an engine. It includes the intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, the oil metering pump o-ring and the oil filter base o-ring"

So you'll need to get all that too.

Which is what RA calls the "O-ring Kit" that costs $153 plus $7.00 shipping US ONLY.

"Our engine o-ring kits contain all the INTERNAL o-rings for the engine. This kit differs from the overhaul kit as it does not contain any "hard parts" (apex seals, springs, etc). Remember, if you plan to install your engine into the car, you'll need to purchase the installation kit also. The installation kit is not required for aviation applications.

Our o-ring kits include Viton rotor oil seal rings and Teflon o-rings, except for the outer water jacket o-ring, which is made of the stock Mazda material."

So that comes to over $200 dollars compared to the $130, once again, for the 86-88 NA. REMEMBER, this is 86-88 NA only, for some reason all the other kits are fairly more expensive from atkins for Turbo or 89-91 NA.


With the list I provided above, and the cost of hylomar and some sealant afterwards, I spent ~$440 for just rebuild parts and even got some free oil filters when I picked everything up from Atkins

There were other costs in the build too, like a socket that would fit the flywheel nut with an adapter for the air impact gun, and some other misc things.

jhammons01

'other cost'???? No **** to that!! I have spent probably $400 on stuff that does not go on the engine. Stuff that, unless I build another 13B I'll probably never use again.

I couldn't find all the individual parts that you call out on Atkins. I was going to call tomorrow and ask. The kit that they list is like you said an '86-'88. I have an '89 so I was going to call.

I am trying to find the differences in the kits 'cause if I order from Florida and there are parts not in it, like you describe, I am going to have the red ***!! I can drive over to Mazdatrix tomorrow and buy what I need. The kits seem to have a $200 difference in RA's favor.

I spoke to Bruce Turrentine On Friday night and he told me that those two items from RA were all I needed. I'll call RA on Monday am to clarify. I'll also go over to Mazdatrix as I am more than ready to start putting things back together.. I had local shop call me last night and offer the items we listed for a "huge discount" from Mazda. I said OK, how much?? They told me $1050. Sure, I'll be right over with cash. (yea right)

This discussion is really what is needed. Seems that companies are putting in and taking out stuff and it makes it confusing to us consumers. From what I hear you should be abe to get the needed items for 500-600. That is not too bad considering.

RETed

For FC's 13BT turbos...

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/REBUILD/rparts.html


-Ted

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

side seal plugs are not a necessary item to do a rebuild but it is recommended, i didn't check on that but i'm sure you could probably contact rotary aviation and get a string cheap, i have enough string left over to do 10 more rebuilds with the string they provided.

jhammons01

Karack!! you are sneaky.I didn't see that you had slipped the Rotory Aviation Apex Seals on your list. There was the big price difference. I couldn't see the price difference at first.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

lol

oh and yes, dDub is right, i never noticed Atkins had cheaper prices on the gasket set that would bring the price down somewhat.

ddub

What things could you not find? I listed everything that I used by the name Atkins calls it with its part number. Just do a search on their site, that's how I found everything, and then I drove to the shop (somewhat local) and picked it all up myself, all I had to do was hand them my list with part numbers.

Bob_The_Normal

Awesome job Karack, I was thinking of doing this sometime because I was looking for this list when I started my rebuild.

Thanks =)

--Gary

jhammons01

I couldn't find all those numbers. I am sorry they just weren't there and yes I did a search on their website. Don't worry about it I have the numbers so I can just call tomorrow and find out what '89 prices are. It is sad but I looked at all these websites and by what I found I wrote them off. You guys pointing these options out made me look again. They need a better Webmaster. I should be able to shop and find these options easily.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

is it an 89 n/a?

ddub

89-91 NA Gasket Kit http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...2&cat=0&page=1
2mm corner seal plug set (optional) http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...3&cat=0&page=1
FD corner seal spring set http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...4&cat=0&page=1
2mm side seal spring set http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...7&cat=0&page=1
Viton Oil Ring set http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...8&cat=0&page=2
Front main seal http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...2&cat=0&page=2
Rear main seal http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...3&cat=0&page=2
Thermal Pellet http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...1&cat=0&page=2


Hope that helps.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

dDub is trying to make me look bad on my own thread...

ddub

Haha, no way dude

Not trying to steal your thunder or anything at all, we're all here to learn from each other and help when we can

jhammons01

Damn dude that does help, I only need the apex seals. Now I know that your ready to shoot me rightabout now but I can't find anything on that Atkins apex seal page that is for 13B 2mm seal!! I am sorry but here is the page that comes up

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=599
http://atkinsrotary.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=603

Neither one have 2mm. If you find that one you'll be the ****.

I now have a spread sheet that has all the part number and prices from each of the main suppliers if anybody wants it. johnh@teamavtec.com I'll send you the excel file.

ddub

Interesting, I'm looking but can only find 3mm 13b apex seals.

Why not just get the RA seals and springs? They're harder, stronger, and cheaper.

jhammons01

I am trying to find the price and part number for all the suppliers. I have the RA part/price. Just wanting to see if you could find it. I have had my eyes opened with this thread. There are a lot more options. If I could get that last price I could have comprehensive matrix that shows who has the lowest price.

ddub

Ah, I gotcha.

If you call Atkins to find out remember to add the prices of the short and long apex seal springs to the total and remember the RA ones come with the springs.

patman

iTrader: (3)

RA seals= good, RA springs=bad. if youre gonna mix and match parts, get stock or atkins springs and RA seals. Other than that, the list looks good. Add 100-200 bucks for miscellaneous **** involved in pulling/sticking the engine and various chemicals and outsourced work.