Questions for the folks with 20b's in FC's
01-07-17, 11:56 AM
#1
Questions for the folks with 20b's in FC's
Getting a parts list together to swap a 20b into the fc and had a few questions in regards to a few parts that are needed for the swap.
What mounts is everyone using? The couple that I saw are the Banzai and Defined Autoworks mounts. Will the stock oil pan clear the subframe and steering rack? Will the intake manifold clear the stock hood?
If the intake manifold wont clear then I guess I will probably get the LIM shortened by DA. For fuel rails I may go with the Banzai pair because I saw in another thread with the DA shortened LIM an aftermarket primary rail wouldn't work. I plan on using ID 2000 sec/1000 primaries and will probably mount the primary injectors without the hats to the rails and shorten the mounts. Hopefully that will clear and have room for the secondary rail.
What fuel pumps to use? I plan on using an in tank setup. I original thought that a single 450 walbro might work, but now I'm thinking it may not be enough. So maybe I'm thinking of running dual in tank pumps. Maybe dual Aeromotive 340's? Then a single -8 to rail in series to my current Aeromotive FPR with -6 back to tank.
Will the FC front cover, water pump and or main v-belt pulley work? I won't be running power steering or A/C. I plan on using the stock CAS and TPS
Right now I'm looking at using a Haltech Elite 750 and a Borg Warner S369sxe turbo
Anybody use that CXracing 20b manifold that is flanged for 60mm wastegate?
What mounts is everyone using? The couple that I saw are the Banzai and Defined Autoworks mounts. Will the stock oil pan clear the subframe and steering rack? Will the intake manifold clear the stock hood?
If the intake manifold wont clear then I guess I will probably get the LIM shortened by DA. For fuel rails I may go with the Banzai pair because I saw in another thread with the DA shortened LIM an aftermarket primary rail wouldn't work. I plan on using ID 2000 sec/1000 primaries and will probably mount the primary injectors without the hats to the rails and shorten the mounts. Hopefully that will clear and have room for the secondary rail.
What fuel pumps to use? I plan on using an in tank setup. I original thought that a single 450 walbro might work, but now I'm thinking it may not be enough. So maybe I'm thinking of running dual in tank pumps. Maybe dual Aeromotive 340's? Then a single -8 to rail in series to my current Aeromotive FPR with -6 back to tank.
Will the FC front cover, water pump and or main v-belt pulley work? I won't be running power steering or A/C. I plan on using the stock CAS and TPS
Right now I'm looking at using a Haltech Elite 750 and a Borg Warner S369sxe turbo
Anybody use that CXracing 20b manifold that is flanged for 60mm wastegate?
01-07-17, 04:32 PM
#3
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with mine i used K2RD mounts, and i believe the Banzai mounts are really similar, the engine sits on the stock subframe, uses stock FC mounts, and the 20B oil pan sits right over the steering rack. basically the transmission doesn't move, and the extra rotor goes forward.
with the K2 mounts the 20B intake sits IN the T2 hood scoop, some trimming of the inner structure is needed. obviously the defined intake would offer more clearance. there was also a guy who moved the engine back and down (plenty of room) and he was able to clear a flat NA hood with the stock intakes.
the cosmo uses side feed primaries, and normal S5 T2 secondary injectors. for fuel pump you just need to do your calcs with 50% more...
the cosmo front cover basically is the S5 T2 front cover. the FC water pump will go right on, as would an FD setup. remember the 20B is longer so the FC hoses and stuff won't work. mine used the upper hose from a GSL-SE actually, lower was custom.
the cosmo TPS pinout is just like the FD although it uses a different connector style. CAS uses a different connector, but is otherwise an FC part.
the 20B swap isn't cheap, but the engine fits in the FC much better than the FD engine, and so as swaps go is actually pretty easy
with the K2 mounts the 20B intake sits IN the T2 hood scoop, some trimming of the inner structure is needed. obviously the defined intake would offer more clearance. there was also a guy who moved the engine back and down (plenty of room) and he was able to clear a flat NA hood with the stock intakes.
the cosmo uses side feed primaries, and normal S5 T2 secondary injectors. for fuel pump you just need to do your calcs with 50% more...
the cosmo front cover basically is the S5 T2 front cover. the FC water pump will go right on, as would an FD setup. remember the 20B is longer so the FC hoses and stuff won't work. mine used the upper hose from a GSL-SE actually, lower was custom.
the cosmo TPS pinout is just like the FD although it uses a different connector style. CAS uses a different connector, but is otherwise an FC part.
the 20B swap isn't cheap, but the engine fits in the FC much better than the FD engine, and so as swaps go is actually pretty easy
01-08-17, 01:22 PM
#5
with mine i used K2RD mounts, and i believe the Banzai mounts are really similar, the engine sits on the stock subframe, uses stock FC mounts, and the 20B oil pan sits right over the steering rack. basically the transmission doesn't move, and the extra rotor goes forward.
with the K2 mounts the 20B intake sits IN the T2 hood scoop, some trimming of the inner structure is needed. obviously the defined intake would offer more clearance. there was also a guy who moved the engine back and down (plenty of room) and he was able to clear a flat NA hood with the stock intakes.
the cosmo uses side feed primaries, and normal S5 T2 secondary injectors. for fuel pump you just need to do your calcs with 50% more...
the cosmo front cover basically is the S5 T2 front cover. the FC water pump will go right on, as would an FD setup. remember the 20B is longer so the FC hoses and stuff won't work. mine used the upper hose from a GSL-SE actually, lower was custom.
the cosmo TPS pinout is just like the FD although it uses a different connector style. CAS uses a different connector, but is otherwise an FC part.
the 20B swap isn't cheap, but the engine fits in the FC much better than the FD engine, and so as swaps go is actually pretty easy
with the K2 mounts the 20B intake sits IN the T2 hood scoop, some trimming of the inner structure is needed. obviously the defined intake would offer more clearance. there was also a guy who moved the engine back and down (plenty of room) and he was able to clear a flat NA hood with the stock intakes.
the cosmo uses side feed primaries, and normal S5 T2 secondary injectors. for fuel pump you just need to do your calcs with 50% more...
the cosmo front cover basically is the S5 T2 front cover. the FC water pump will go right on, as would an FD setup. remember the 20B is longer so the FC hoses and stuff won't work. mine used the upper hose from a GSL-SE actually, lower was custom.
the cosmo TPS pinout is just like the FD although it uses a different connector style. CAS uses a different connector, but is otherwise an FC part.
the 20B swap isn't cheap, but the engine fits in the FC much better than the FD engine, and so as swaps go is actually pretty easy
01-10-17, 07:19 PM
#6
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thats a good idea, putting the engine is is pretty easy, and enough stuff (like the CAS) is the same, to make the whole thing pretty basic.
01-11-17, 06:47 AM
#7
If you ask me, its the easy way (banzai mounts, stock trans, act clutch and shortened lim) and there is the right way.
My oppinion of the right way is to :
-start with placing the front of the engine exactly where the front of the 13b sits and mount it there (small massage for trans tunnel might be needed depending on transmission) That way you will keep the nice balance of the car, you will have more space for manifold/turbo/airfilter/intercooler/radiator/hoses and pipes.
-xcessive short LIM (both for Space, lowered weight and more equal flow)
-stronger gearbox of your choice (i am a eu guy so i went with a bmw one), cause why go with a 20b and a stock trans...hell it will break with stock twins and a retune...
-twin or trippel clutch
-FD front cover and trigger
-ID injectors and IGN-1A coils
This will make it easy to tune and they are very vital parts, you dont want to break that expansive 20b due to a crappy coil or injector..
Rest depends of what the car will be used for (street/track/both)
EWP is always nice
Modern engine manegment system with sensors for monitoring everything (oil/fuel/water/air)
This is only my oppinion thou and ppl might disagree....i did however start out the easy way but changed my mind when the car was basicly turn key ready.....
My oppinion of the right way is to :
-start with placing the front of the engine exactly where the front of the 13b sits and mount it there (small massage for trans tunnel might be needed depending on transmission) That way you will keep the nice balance of the car, you will have more space for manifold/turbo/airfilter/intercooler/radiator/hoses and pipes.
-xcessive short LIM (both for Space, lowered weight and more equal flow)
-stronger gearbox of your choice (i am a eu guy so i went with a bmw one), cause why go with a 20b and a stock trans...hell it will break with stock twins and a retune...
-twin or trippel clutch
-FD front cover and trigger
-ID injectors and IGN-1A coils
This will make it easy to tune and they are very vital parts, you dont want to break that expansive 20b due to a crappy coil or injector..
Rest depends of what the car will be used for (street/track/both)
EWP is always nice
Modern engine manegment system with sensors for monitoring everything (oil/fuel/water/air)
This is only my oppinion thou and ppl might disagree....i did however start out the easy way but changed my mind when the car was basicly turn key ready.....
Last edited by rx7jocke; 01-11-17 at 06:50 AM.
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01-21-17, 02:30 PM
#8
For my 20B FC i made my own mounts, its probably easiest part of the install.
I had TII trans in stock location, stock manifolds, hood clearance was tight but ok with vented hood.
Stock 20B oil pan, clerance to rack / subframe no problem.
20B TPS, CAS, FC power steering pump. First i had FC water pump, then i switched to EWP.
Radiator had to be reclocated.
OS Giken twinplate TS2A, holding ok. Broke 2 transmissions so far.
I had it running with one Bosch 044 pump, stock primaries, 1600 secondaries.
FC coils mounted on the engine block under UIM, 6 FC igniters stacked together and mounted in place of original FC trailing coilpack.
I had TII trans in stock location, stock manifolds, hood clearance was tight but ok with vented hood.
Stock 20B oil pan, clerance to rack / subframe no problem.
20B TPS, CAS, FC power steering pump. First i had FC water pump, then i switched to EWP.
Radiator had to be reclocated.
OS Giken twinplate TS2A, holding ok. Broke 2 transmissions so far.
I had it running with one Bosch 044 pump, stock primaries, 1600 secondaries.
FC coils mounted on the engine block under UIM, 6 FC igniters stacked together and mounted in place of original FC trailing coilpack.
01-21-17, 08:30 PM
#9
For my 20B FC i made my own mounts, its probably easiest part of the install.
I had TII trans in stock location, stock manifolds, hood clearance was tight but ok with vented hood.
Stock 20B oil pan, clerance to rack / subframe no problem.
20B TPS, CAS, FC power steering pump. First i had FC water pump, then i switched to EWP.
Radiator had to be reclocated.
OS Giken twinplate TS2A, holding ok. Broke 2 transmissions so far.
I had it running with one Bosch 044 pump, stock primaries, 1600 secondaries.
FC coils mounted on the engine block under UIM, 6 FC igniters stacked together and mounted in place of original FC trailing coilpack.
I had TII trans in stock location, stock manifolds, hood clearance was tight but ok with vented hood.
Stock 20B oil pan, clerance to rack / subframe no problem.
20B TPS, CAS, FC power steering pump. First i had FC water pump, then i switched to EWP.
Radiator had to be reclocated.
OS Giken twinplate TS2A, holding ok. Broke 2 transmissions so far.
I had it running with one Bosch 044 pump, stock primaries, 1600 secondaries.
FC coils mounted on the engine block under UIM, 6 FC igniters stacked together and mounted in place of original FC trailing coilpack.
How much power do you think you are making Higgi? Highest duty cycle with the injectors and what turbo?
01-22-17, 05:04 AM
#11
You have a few options:
You could run 6 secondaries, and pair 2 on each rotor. This wouldnt require an additional injector driver.
You could plug the 3 ports you dont use with either a permanent solution like threading the boss and putting a plug in it, or a freeze plug which should hold most typical boost levels, and could possibly be removed later for use if youre careful.
You could leave your options open for later growth by getting the FFE fuel rail for 6 secondary injectors, and use 3 dummy injectors to close things up. This is the option I chose to do. Depending on whether you are ordering a fitment for 48mm injectors or 60mm injectors, Pro-jay has you covered:
Block off Dummy Injector Bosch Style 14mm X 60mm
Last edited by socks; 01-22-17 at 05:07 AM.