Monsterbox's 20b FD3S Conversion
12-11-14, 01:05 PM
#301
talking head
12-11-14, 02:02 PM
#303
I will post a vid shortly of it revving/driving around the block as we wait for the tune
I took it down the street and all I can say is DAMN. Totally different from the 13b. The torque in 2nd gear is incredible. I can already see it easily blowing the tires off before boost!
I took it down the street and all I can say is DAMN. Totally different from the 13b. The torque in 2nd gear is incredible. I can already see it easily blowing the tires off before boost!
12-14-14, 10:27 PM
#307
Another Successful Day
Drove the fd around all day today. Iv been taking logs and tuning the on/off throttle and its performing well.
I took it up to 60mph today to assess any bumpsteer. My buddy and I eye balled the alignment, we noticed it took almost the full length of adjustment on the tie rods to get everything set. I'm going to put it on a rack this week. So far, it feels decent. I notice what I would describe as a very slight "play" or "drift" in the rack with the wheel perfectly straight, however once again this could easily just be alignment. Its very very miniscule. I did not feel any darting of the steering going over bumps etc.
It feels like this engine was made for the fd3s. The off boost power is just so fat. Flying up hills at 2k rpm. No need to rev up to get moving like the 13b. This 80mm makes positive pressure just as easily as the 67mm on the 13b, and while your waiting, you've got nice torque in stop and go environments. This thing will need sticky tires and a rear end, I have no idea how its going to stay straight with boost
Ill have to say, its worth every ounce of sweat hearing this engine run. Still can't get over how fast it revs. All in all, aside from the last issue, this swap has actually been enjoyable. To anyone looking to do a 20b, take your time, do your research and just do it!
Can't wait to get it tuned so we can get some boost videos!
I took it up to 60mph today to assess any bumpsteer. My buddy and I eye balled the alignment, we noticed it took almost the full length of adjustment on the tie rods to get everything set. I'm going to put it on a rack this week. So far, it feels decent. I notice what I would describe as a very slight "play" or "drift" in the rack with the wheel perfectly straight, however once again this could easily just be alignment. Its very very miniscule. I did not feel any darting of the steering going over bumps etc.
It feels like this engine was made for the fd3s. The off boost power is just so fat. Flying up hills at 2k rpm. No need to rev up to get moving like the 13b. This 80mm makes positive pressure just as easily as the 67mm on the 13b, and while your waiting, you've got nice torque in stop and go environments. This thing will need sticky tires and a rear end, I have no idea how its going to stay straight with boost
Ill have to say, its worth every ounce of sweat hearing this engine run. Still can't get over how fast it revs. All in all, aside from the last issue, this swap has actually been enjoyable. To anyone looking to do a 20b, take your time, do your research and just do it!
Can't wait to get it tuned so we can get some boost videos!
12-15-14, 02:35 AM
#308
sound great! cant wait to finish my 20b fc, just the rebuild and turbo manifold to go! how do you think the gearbox and differential will hold up? or are you getting stronger parts?
12-15-14, 10:01 AM
#310
I'm not sure yet, I think the longevity of these parts depends on the aggressiveness of the right foot. I think it should hold together as long as the clutch and throttle application is smooth. The torque is so abrupt that dumping the clutch or stabbing the throttle seems likely the rip things apart. Its not so much the power, but the abrupt delivery.
12-16-14, 11:38 AM
#313
:)
Here she is all back together!
I've noticed that the coolant temps have stayed rock solid under ~186F on both the Defi Gauge and the Engine Coolant Temp Sensor via ECU. Ambient temps outside are around 55-65F
Going to install an oil temp gauge here shortly.Considering its going to be ~30F here in the next few weeks for the tune, do you guys think it will be ok to proceed to tune on these stock oil coolers? I really want to upgrade to dual 25 row's, but at the same time I'd like to know the car is running smooth before undertaking another little project.
Thanks!
12-16-14, 01:57 PM
#317
Keep an eye on your oil temps, as those increase so will the water temps...quickly. Cars with inadequate oil cooling take a lot longer to cool down after a pull on the dyno even with a ton of fans.
You really need to get rid of the double throttle and you can remove that 12V+ bracket off the fuse block in about 2 minutes with a 10mm.
You really need to get rid of the double throttle and you can remove that 12V+ bracket off the fuse block in about 2 minutes with a 10mm.
12-16-14, 03:01 PM
#318
Keep an eye on your oil temps, as those increase so will the water temps...quickly. Cars with inadequate oil cooling take a lot longer to cool down after a pull on the dyno even with a ton of fans.
You really need to get rid of the double throttle and you can remove that 12V+ bracket off the fuse block in about 2 minutes with a 10mm.
You really need to get rid of the double throttle and you can remove that 12V+ bracket off the fuse block in about 2 minutes with a 10mm.
12-24-14, 01:30 AM
#323
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I drove my 20B with stock dual oil coolers for 3 years. Never had an issue. I did how ever did the swap for a 25 row coolers connected in parallel for good measure.
I would worry more about my tune than the oil coolers. Be conservative at first and make sure there is fuel through the rpm range. These things are very fragile in lean conditions.
The sound is the best part of this modification. When you show up to a meet no one understands why the car sounds like that unless they know what's been done to it :-)
Also for the drive terrain I drove the car for about 4 years with stock power terrain and I had no issues. But I was always careful not to dump the clutch or just mash the gas pedal in first to third. It got to a point where it was annoying because I knew I could break it... So I always drive carefully and I was subconscious about it
Now I changed every single part of the drive terrain right down to the betting in the wheels and now I drive with a big smile
Cheers
Andrew
I would worry more about my tune than the oil coolers. Be conservative at first and make sure there is fuel through the rpm range. These things are very fragile in lean conditions.
The sound is the best part of this modification. When you show up to a meet no one understands why the car sounds like that unless they know what's been done to it :-)
Also for the drive terrain I drove the car for about 4 years with stock power terrain and I had no issues. But I was always careful not to dump the clutch or just mash the gas pedal in first to third. It got to a point where it was annoying because I knew I could break it... So I always drive carefully and I was subconscious about it
Now I changed every single part of the drive terrain right down to the betting in the wheels and now I drive with a big smile
Cheers
Andrew
12-24-14, 08:14 AM
#324
I drove my 20B with stock dual oil coolers for 3 years. Never had an issue. I did how ever did the swap for a 25 row coolers connected in parallel for good measure.
I would worry more about my tune than the oil coolers. Be conservative at first and make sure there is fuel through the rpm range. These things are very fragile in lean conditions.
The sound is the best part of this modification. When you show up to a meet no one understands why the car sounds like that unless they know what's been done to it :-)
Also for the drive terrain I drove the car for about 4 years with stock power terrain and I had no issues. But I was always careful not to dump the clutch or just mash the gas pedal in first to third. It got to a point where it was annoying because I knew I could break it... So I always drive carefully and I was subconscious about it
Now I changed every single part of the drive terrain right down to the betting in the wheels and now I drive with a big smile
Cheers
Andrew
I would worry more about my tune than the oil coolers. Be conservative at first and make sure there is fuel through the rpm range. These things are very fragile in lean conditions.
The sound is the best part of this modification. When you show up to a meet no one understands why the car sounds like that unless they know what's been done to it :-)
Also for the drive terrain I drove the car for about 4 years with stock power terrain and I had no issues. But I was always careful not to dump the clutch or just mash the gas pedal in first to third. It got to a point where it was annoying because I knew I could break it... So I always drive carefully and I was subconscious about it
Now I changed every single part of the drive terrain right down to the betting in the wheels and now I drive with a big smile
Cheers
Andrew
Some really good information here. Glad to know its not so dangerous to drive on stock coolers. I will go 25 row eventually, but as yo u said, a good tune is priority number one!
Iv driven to a grand total of two meets in my area and people already don't know what the heck to think about the sound, you got that right! Part of me wants to be rediculous now and install a downpipe cut out hehe
Glad to hear you have successfully been enjoying your car for a while now
12-24-14, 11:14 AM
#325
Time is not a measure of mileage, we have customers that put little to no miles on each year, so 4 years could amount to 4 or 40K miles. Just had a car in the shop that had not been driven for 7 years, so all of his components held up quite well compared to a customer that just passed 300K on his 94.
The stock drivetrain will hold up as long as you are not abusive, do not do any hard launches if you have the stock Torsen. One of the biggest problems I had was traction, 275 Eagle F1's would just smoke above 4K in any gear at anything above 12psi. The only time I ever went WOT above 12psi was on the dyno. Now we are running 335 Pilot's so we will see what happens next year.
The oil cooling should be very high on your priority list, at least you have R1 coolers and not the completely useless single. The OEM oil coolers are only 10 row.
Stock cooler is 10 row core dimensions 10"W x 6" H x 2" D which is 60 sq in (120 cu. in.)
Typical 19 row core dimensions are 11.5"W x 5.5"H x 2" D which is 63.25 sq. in. (126.5 cu. in.)
Typical 25 row core dimensions are 11.5"W x 7.5"H x 2" D which is 86.25 sq. in. (172.5 cu. in.)
19 row cooler are only a slight upgrade from stock as far as surface area, however the condition of the 20 year old stock coolers at this point leave much to be desired. They are positioned in front of the car and take quite a beating. Nearly every one I see 50% (or more) of the fins are crushed flat restricting airflow. The addition on the 9 more rows also increases oil through the cooler.
The stock drivetrain will hold up as long as you are not abusive, do not do any hard launches if you have the stock Torsen. One of the biggest problems I had was traction, 275 Eagle F1's would just smoke above 4K in any gear at anything above 12psi. The only time I ever went WOT above 12psi was on the dyno. Now we are running 335 Pilot's so we will see what happens next year.
The oil cooling should be very high on your priority list, at least you have R1 coolers and not the completely useless single. The OEM oil coolers are only 10 row.
Stock cooler is 10 row core dimensions 10"W x 6" H x 2" D which is 60 sq in (120 cu. in.)
Typical 19 row core dimensions are 11.5"W x 5.5"H x 2" D which is 63.25 sq. in. (126.5 cu. in.)
Typical 25 row core dimensions are 11.5"W x 7.5"H x 2" D which is 86.25 sq. in. (172.5 cu. in.)
19 row cooler are only a slight upgrade from stock as far as surface area, however the condition of the 20 year old stock coolers at this point leave much to be desired. They are positioned in front of the car and take quite a beating. Nearly every one I see 50% (or more) of the fins are crushed flat restricting airflow. The addition on the 9 more rows also increases oil through the cooler.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 12-24-14 at 11:19 AM.