stickmantijuana

iTrader: (1)

hey guys, I've been microtech fan for many years. I am realizing now though I was a fan only because my past local tuner (Kiloracing) happened to be a master at tuning it. I have since moved 1500 miles away, and now it runs poorly after a new tune. Below 2000 rpm, it has a lot of hesitation.

Needless to say, I'm looking for a new ECU. I'm hearing lot of work-in-progress with different ECU's in regards to running a 20b properly. I preferably want it to run like a stock car, handle flex fuel, and do traction control well. It would be great if the interface was user friendly so I can play with it.

I'm currently between aem infinity, haltech elite 2500, or adaptronic e1280s.

I would appreciate experience based feedback with rotaries only. If you are actually running one of the above, I would love to hear from you. I am not really looking for a technical comparison... frankly, I don't care which one has finer map resolution or has more outputs, logging, etc. I don't race professionally. I just love the driving experience with the 20b. I want to drive it around with the least problems without constantly worrying about hot air temp, knock, timing, etc. around the great state of arizona which can be pretty darn hot in summer and cold in the mountains with beautiful scenic roads.

I definitely want to stay away from an incomplete product or something that's going to require lot of time fine tuning, which I can't tell from reading their brochures and talking with vendors. Thank you all in advance!

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I'm looking to upgrade to the Elite myself as I have an older E11. I like the Haltech because there is a HUGE amount of experience and support right here on the forum for 20b's.

MSTHTD1

iTrader: (16)

^
Like Tvon i'm also going Elite upgrading from a PS2000. You mentioned Microtech worked for you because Kilo is good with them... Assuming your not going to tune whatever ECU you buy, why not talk to the tuner you gonna use to see if he can tune any of the ECU's you mentioned? You might end up in the same situation your in now.

JZW

iTrader: (5)

I am getting a new ecu as well. I talked to Ray Wilson of PFS and he was going to install the Adaptronic for me. However, in the end he said it was way too faulty and just to go with the proven Haltech ECU. He stated that Haltech has been proven and it will be a LOT easier to tune than an Adaptronic.

stickmantijuana

iTrader: (1)

thanks for your inputs. I take it nobody is really happy with their current one and hoping for the better with the newer ecu's?

I ran e11v2 with M&W ignition setup which I upgraded to platinum in a short time strictly based on peer pressure here 3-5 years ago It was tuned on a dyno at the shop that installed them for me. It ran great for about a week then ran like crap compared to parking lot tuned microtech lt12. Retuned it on a dyno, and the same crap happened. It never ran the engine as smoothly as microtech. I ended up selling them on ebay and ended up buying microtech lt16 which ran the car like complete stock until I did something crazy to the manifolds and firewall requiring a retune.

Jesus at kiloracing said he will try remote tuning it with a webcam. That seems to be my best option by far. I always think there must be a reason why bulk of 20b drag record holders uses microtech after sinking 150k+ into the car. There is a growing appeal with the newer ECU's though. I would love to do traction control and flex fuel someday.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

I've got a Haltech PS2000 and am quite happy with it, especially with regard to the support available here and directly from Haltech. My purchase was influenced by getting it at shop cost (Thanks Logan!) and Defined Autoworks having solid experience with tuning them. My goal is to have my 20B FC behave like a stock FD would, with a nice, smooth powerband that makes V8s blush, very much in thanks to the twins. As far as the extras you mentioned, I came up with a clever knock control solution that only uses one of the inputs via the Ignition Advance option in ECU Manager.

Flex fuel is on my list, along with A/C later on too. Overall, I just want my car to be easy to drive, behave like a FD would but with another rotor and is realistically drivable on those long trips to DGRR or Sevenstock. A lil bit of GT-Limited SE here and there, with a lot of Infini

stickmantijuana

iTrader: (1)

you've been helpful and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but how can you say the above when you were have massive issues just a couple months ago with your haltech?
https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-foru...-cake-1082768/

I do understand your position. many times, it's the religion mentality that takes over when reviewing a product or shop. I am guessing it's because we really love our cars.

When I said microtech ran the car like stock (before all the manifold changes), it ran the car as if I rolled it off Honda showroom floor. It started up like a swiss watch for years. held AFR rock steady in PA winter and FL summer on the same tune. Engine also sounded silky smooth at all times. Never required me to even think about hooking my laptop to it for years. I actually lost my connection dongle for this reason.

Many enjoy tinkering with the ecu, but that's not what I am looking for.... I personally prefer to leave the tune alone and focus on the hardware when I want to work or sink money into the car.

RZMotorsports

i would recommend either Motec or Vipec88. Motec can be pricy but you get your moneys worth. if you want more affordable but amazing ecu go with vipec88 we tested it on a 20b and made 720hp on pump gas 16-17psi and the car runs like a dream on the street.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

Im running a Aem infinity 6.
I would recommend either aem, haltech or go motec if you can swing that.
I have not had good luck with adaptronic so far.

vincentrx7

iTrader: (2)

I think the suggestion to use something that your tuner is good at is a great idea. If they are good at it, they can make it work for you.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

The LT16 runs my 20B absolutely perfectly and has been doing so for years. I have an Adaptronic 1280 sitting on my work bench that I am reticent to install. Luckily I made a custom engine harness that allows me to just make a small adapter harness to drop in most ECUs capable of running the 20B, so if I feel like trying, I can change back without too much pain.

What it really comes down to is your ability to tune or have the car tuned. You can have a $20K ECU that will not start your car if it is not set up correctly.

Troclo

In Europe we swear to Motec! There a currently 3 FD's in Denmark and we all run the M84! Their support online is excellent and you can buy an untermed wiring harness and make your own harness without too much trouple. Most UK 20B's also run Motec.
Im very happy with mine to say the least. The logging feature is very good to!

joeylyrech

iTrader: (11)

The thing with microtech ecus is that whatever they have been using to run the ignition side of the ecu is bullet proof.I have never seen a microtech with a coil signal problem like many of the other ecus plus they come with a start up map and that is a plus cause you can limp your car to the tuner.Not the best ecu on the market cause it does offer a lot of options but it will run your without 2 much hassle.Now there services sucks plus you have to ship the dam thing 2 australia if something goes bad.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

The Adaptronic 1280s is doing a pretty decent job these days.

Originally, the ECU was brand new, pretty much untested on the 20b had some issues setting up. This ECU is very complex in that it allows a plethora of features; even allows reprogramming the logic functions / pretty much do ANYTHING desired. However, from a plug-up-and-go standpoint, it takes a pretty good deal of software setup to get going. Everything requires setup, accelerator asynchronous correction settings, target AFR settings, VE table, injector staging, calibration tables for the sensors and then correction values for each sensor, etc etc.

Initially, an issue was encountered with incorrect firing order and throttle tip-in / hesitations. However, its now been sorted out to 90% of all issues with tuning. After raising the correction range for the target AFR to 30%, it beautifully corrects cruising AFR to match nearly exactly the target up to 30% outside the manually tuned cells!

In my opinion, this ECU is definitely capable of running the 20b, it just needs/needed some more experience behind it / base mapping. The GUI is not as user friendly as AEM or Haltech. For example, AEM allows you to rotate the maps 360* viewing and change units of measure (kpa, psi, inches/hg, etc) while Adaptronic is more rigid. However, don't forget, you could easily reprogram the whole thing yourself.

Here's my break down:
AEM / Haltech = Windows
Microtech = Apple
Adaptronic 1280s = Linux


On the flip side, I did have a chance to try out a Microtech Lt12s. I wired the whole bad boy up to D581 LS2 coils and no spark. Couldn't even get it to register the CAS signal. I believe it was programmed from the FD CAS which may have been the issue. Now, I'm not knocking on the Microtech, BUUUTTT, I found that it was entirely ridiculous to have the Firmware reprogrammed for my specific sensors.

One thing that's not stated enough, here's a fair warning: If you did not purchase the microtech DIRECTLY from microtech and specified exactly what sensors you are running, there is a strong chance that the ECU will not work to satisfactory unless you match your sensors to what is programmed. This is understandable. However, I was forced to sell the ecu that I purchased, as Microtech still hasn't replied to any of my calls or emails with requests to reflash the ECU. Yes, they may hold the world records, but in this day and age you shouldn't have to sent your ECU to Australia to switch CAS sensors.

To anyone reading this, once again this is my opinion, from my experience in building and driving a 20b in the past year. This is my first 20b swap so don't necessarily hold your hat on everything here.

For what its worth, I do not plan to change ECU's anytime soon. I will be 100% satisfied if I can workout a slight throttle hesitation when stabbing the pedal at around 4-5k RPMs. The car made over 700rwhp on pump gas and under 22psi, never a hint of ignition breakup!

stickmantijuana

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the honest feedback! it does sound like a tuning issue. hopefully things would get resolved in short time.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

No offense taken. Turns out my issue was due to an old FD fuel pump not feeding the engine sufficiently and even but low compression on one rotor, presumably due to a gunked up injector. Both of which aren't the ECU's fault. I'm of the same mentality, I just want it to work right without a bunch of fussing around. I'll wrench when I WANT to wrench

hsmidy

How does a gunked up injector lower your compression?

rx7jocke

Haltech PS2000 cant use FFE triggers just so we get that out there again...i just made that misstake so now i went with FD front cover and trigger and a custom oilpan ...600usd misstake

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Strange thing to say when Ray has never even used one.

On a side note in my experience the VAST amount of issues with ANY ecu platform is usually the tuner.. This is one of the reasons tech support is so critical for end users, and why choosing a platform with good tech support should be on the top of your list.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

To be clear to other people reading this, you did not understand how closed loop AFR tuning in the Adaptronic works, and you were not aware that ECU was trimming itself when you were making manual adjustments. I am not trying to call you out here, just making sure people are not getting the wrong impression from your statements.

stickmantijuana

iTrader: (1)

did you get to fix monsterbox's hesitation problem as he described it? he's about the only one running adaptronic with 20b on this forum I think, hence his stated experience gets magnified tremendously.

driving issues aren't new to "high-end" ecu's. I've went through my shares of popular ecu's in the past if you check back to see all my posts. none was perfect. There was always a spot, hesitation, or even fail to start that I couldn't iron out which starts bugging you until you switch the ecu hoping for the better. about the only thing that felt great was microtech. motec is way more than what I want to spend on an ecu, and they are not panacea. I have one shop that recommends Link/Vipec, but no end user, so that's out. the new haltech elite and aem infinity sound so great on paper, but are too new for feedbacks. I wish I could just talk to an end-user with one of the newer offering from aem or haltech.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

That baffled me as well untill Aaron Cake explained it. In short, if an injector is leaking, it washes the oil film off of the rotor's seals. It doesn't make 100% sense to me either, but my primaries were in unknown condition when I got them with the engine. 20+ years can put plenty of nasties in them, even with a new fuel filter.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

I wouldnt classify adaptronic as high "high end" its very new and looks like atari compared to a true high end unit out there.
Not throwing it under the bus by any means. It works or can work but still very new. For the same price aem and haltech are a better buy in my opinion.
Give it time and adaptronic will only grow and become better.
To each is own.
I can speak for Aem. Aem has tested the infinity in shop on several 20b powered cars. The man to talk to for any questions, tech support and tuning as well as purchasing a infinity unit is my man Cody "ebturbo". Not only is he very intellegent but he has messed with just about all the major ems's out there for the most part from my understanding. He specializes in aem currently from my understanding.
And buying a ems that has everything already setup/basemap for a 20b only makes things easier.
For me its comforting to know my car will run and any questions I have he replies almost instantly.
I have tuned on many many different ems's over the years and aem was just so easy, not one issue in driveability or anything once tuned.
I cant speak for haltech

papsmagu

iTrader: (19)

Pick your tuner and then your computer. I run haltech ps2000 with no issues.

Mdessouki

iTrader: (7)

Anyone down for an Motec M84 group buy? Best price I've seen so far is $1,760 USD, and hopefully the group buy would take it down a little. I'd be happy to coordinate one if there is enough interest.