Rotor Hound

I am in the middle of a build with a 20B FD. I am putting in a T6060 Magnum Transmission and Ford 8.8 rear end out of a Ford Explorer. My question -- I want to use a LS9 Clutch so the car has exceptional street-ability while handling the power. I think I can use an Automatic Bell Housing to house the clutches larger size, and it appears that I will have to have a custom flywheel made. Has anyone tried this or know of a place that will make a custom flywheel?

Rotor Hound

Hey everyone. I guess I didn't really expect an answer to my first post. I will just keep you advised of my build. Starting with a strong 20b that has twin turbos making only 350 HP on the Dyno. I will go with a single Garrett. Still deciding on size. Looking for 550 to 600 horse without cutting sheet metal to fit. I am going to the Haltech Elite if available, otherwise an Adaptronic. I like the Haltech because it will allow me to run E85 or 93, sensing the fuel change automatically. I am going to toughen up the drivetrain with an 8.8 ford rear end mated to a Ronin differential mounting kit. A t56 6060 magnum tranny will distribute the power to the rear end. My only worry there is getting a flywheel fabricated to mate up to an LS9 clutch. I will have to use an Automatic bell housing. Hope there is enough room for the clutch. I am putting on Black GZ3 18X12's in the back and 18X9's in the front. Will use Toyo Proxes for meat. 335's in the back 255's in the front. I am going to widen the rear quarters in metal. I used the fiberglass flares last time. Mean looking, but I am looking for a cleaner look this time around. I am attaching a picture of my last FD in Flat Black Wrap. Turned out nice, but the car I just bought has half the miles and extremely clean paint and interior.

Broke_A_Baller

iTrader: (26)

So did you answer your own question?

Rotor Hound

. No I didnt. The original question was. I was looking to see if anyone had any experience with using an LS9 clutch on a 3 rotor using a T56 Magnum tranny. Will a automatic Bell housing from a stock transmission allow enough room to get the LS9 clutch in? Does anyone know where you can have a custom flywheel fabricated?

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Just an FYI the Adaptronic does flex fuel control, you just need to add a flex fuel sensor. Since you have a 20B you will need the E1280S computer.

I would use the EFR 9180 for 600rwhp on 20B. We have 3" vband inlet 1.0 turbine housings for them too.,

Rotor Hound

Thanks everyone. Haltech says they will have the elite ready for the 20B sometime in January. It looks like the LS9 clutch is not going to fit. What will fit is the McCleoud twin disk using the Mazda flex plate and a custom flywheel. The organic friction plate should offer smooth engagement. I also hear that it is much quieter with the clutch pedal in because the floating disk is strapped. So that solves the drivetrain. I am having to up the injectors to 800 cc and go to a Walbro 4501PH. I have decided to go with a Garret GTX4088R turbo. I won't be able to make 600hp but probably 550 with better torque and less lag. Thanks for the replys folks. Talk to ta when things start going together.

rx7jocke

sounds like a plan, gtx4088r is a divided exhaust housing turbo, how will you build the manifold?
just putting all 3 runners together into 1 then divide it into 2? or some sort of spool valve?

Rotor Hound

I am having Beyond Redline Performance build it for me. I will advise on how they are putting it together.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (3)

Sorry mate I don't think the GTX4088r will make more torque and less lag.

Here is a comparison, it's on a piston motor but you get the idea.

GT4088r (dotted lines) vs. EFR9180 (solid lines). The GTX will get you a little bit better response and flow over the GT used in this test but I don't think quite as much as an EFR9180 would.

Just my opinion of course. Looks like it will be a killer build regardless.

Rotor Hound

Thanks for the graph. I have been looking strictly at Garrett Turbos. I was going to go with a bigger Garrett. Thats where my comment came from. I know the Borg Warners are making more power. Impressive stats. I have been told that depndability may not be as strong. Hey. By the way. Look what my son gave me for Christmas. Cool kid.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

borg warner is just as reliable as garrett, if not more reliable. I would do more research before buying if you haven't pulled the trigger already.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

I think borg warner has been around alot longer and not to mention there are plenty of semi's running them for decades over a million miles without a hitch.
Im pretty sure they are still the leaders in turbo technology and should not be overlooked.
With that said you cant go wrong with garrett

TII777

iTrader: (2)

This is a link to a thread on turbo comparison as well as a post originally from BLUE TII?....
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...urbos-1050995/

Talking about the complex relationship of what affects turbo spool...

One thing that really caught my interest is the difference in spool between the EFRs and "regular" Garrett GT, GTX turbos.

It seems like a small difference on piston engine cars in the dyno charts I have seen with direct comparisons.

On the extreme example of a Subaru with its long exhaust path to turbo there is barely any difference in spool (~250rpm).

It seems like a HUGE difference in spool on rotary cars (~1,000rpm or more).

I mean, nothing comes close to spooling as fast on a rotary, not even choking it down with a tiny turbo.

I think it must be due to a relationship of exhaust velocity. The lighter exhaust wheel really seems to magnify the affects of high exhaust velocity.

I think it is because the traditional way of trying to get spool with exhaust velocity in tighter AR housings and smaller exhaust wheels- while it works with the rotary- it is also somewhat counterproductive.

It is counter productive on the rotary because it causes more exhaust manifold pressure which in turn limits exhaust velocity out the exhaust port.

Higher exhaust velocity out the port means its also pulling more intake/fuel into the exhaust during "overlap" (there is more to this dynamic on a rotary than just port timing)- which means more exhaust energy and higher exhaust velocity downstream of the port.

The downside of increased mass of turbine wheel has been greatly diminished with the EFR turbos and so the rotary "overlap" effect (as noted above) has been greatly magnified.

This is my theory on why EFR turbos spool so fast on rotaries compared to piston engines.

I first noticed this affect on a rotary when putting larger exhaust wheels (O trim, P trim) into the same S5 based (~T25 size) exhaust housing. The rate of spool actually improved (despite the increased mass).

Whatever the case is, its nice that a development in the automotive field shows more improvement for rotaries than piston engine cars for once.
__________________
Too much to list...

TII777

iTrader: (2)

Good info in this thread as well....beyond redline worked on this recently so they have seen the EFR9180 response on the rotary first hand. One would think if they are suggesting the gtx4088r over the efr9180 on your application there would be good reason..something you'll have to talk to them about as I know your not necessarily worried about hitting 600whp as much as having the best low end response and drivability.

TII777

iTrader: (2)

Sorry here's the link https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...1062198/page2/

Rotor Hound

Due to the plethora of information you all posted, boasting the EFR9180, I have emailed Redline to see ifs they have put any time into fabricating the manifold for the Garrett and or have already purchased it. If they haven't and I can move to the EFR, I may. I would like to hear from Redline why it is that they favor Garrett's. When I first went to them, I was talking Borg. They changed my mind. I will check back when I hear from them. Thanks for all the input. Thats why I joined the forum.

TII777

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like the EFR turbos have spooled fast on the rotary applications but really haven't produced the power expected. The GTX is not a divided Housing as previously stated otherwise so the manifold will just be 3 runners terminating to one.

Rotor Hound

Due to some of the posts, it may be good to clarify that the turbo I am using is the GTX Turbo not the GT version. The GtX4088R is an undivided housing. So essentially all 3 runners will terminate into 1. No need for a spool valve or anything like that. At this point I am going to go with the Garrett and hope for the best. I will post the DYNO numbers when the tune is complete. Still waiting on Haltech.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (3)

The GTX4088r isn't always an undivided housing, it depends on what you order, there are all sorts of housings available for it.

Should be a good setup though, keep us updated.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Go for the tial vband housing if you can, I've always wanted one haha.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (3)

I don't think they make them for GT40 size. Skips from GT35 to GT42 on their website.

vincentrx7

iTrader: (2)

I suggest you find the thread by HowardColeman on the transmission.The title has 500+whp in it if that helps. I followed his same plan and love the setup. It uses a twin disk quartermaster clutch. Not crazy about the clutch but the thread is a great resource.

Rotor Hound

I will look for Howard's post.