2nd gen alt in 1st gen?
12-01-04, 07:07 PM
#1
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2nd gen alt in 1st gen?
yeah there probally is a thread on this somewhere, but im fat and too lazy to search.. (im really not fat) but how would i go about putting a 89-91 alternator onto a gsl-se? i heard those alternators put out more amperage... so im like what the hell.. why not. thanks guys!
12-01-04, 07:17 PM
#2
the 87-88 alts bolt right up and use the same plug style on the back. They put out 70 amps
the 89-91 alts bolt right up but use a different plug style on the back. You will need to locate a plug (connector) from a junkyard or someone on the forums. These alts put out 90 amps if I am not mistaken.
the 89-91 alts bolt right up but use a different plug style on the back. You will need to locate a plug (connector) from a junkyard or someone on the forums. These alts put out 90 amps if I am not mistaken.
12-01-04, 07:53 PM
#5
The GSL-SE, and 86-88 NA put out 60 amps
87-88 T2 70 amps
89-91 all 80 amps
FD alts are 100 amps
I have a S5 alt in my GSL-SE. It is a direct bolt-in with only a simple wiring modification. The pre-89 alts require no modifications. The FD alts require changing the pulley as well as the wiring mods required for the S5 alts. I would highly recommend the upgrade to S5. You can pm me if you need any help.
Kent
87-88 T2 70 amps
89-91 all 80 amps
FD alts are 100 amps
I have a S5 alt in my GSL-SE. It is a direct bolt-in with only a simple wiring modification. The pre-89 alts require no modifications. The FD alts require changing the pulley as well as the wiring mods required for the S5 alts. I would highly recommend the upgrade to S5. You can pm me if you need any help.
Kent
12-01-04, 07:59 PM
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cool kent thanks man! im probally going to be doing it next month after xmas.. so if u could take apic of the wiring mod that ur talking about i could save it and get the alt.. wow we need more people like u
12-01-04, 08:11 PM
#7
Sure, I will see if I can borrow a friend's camera. I mod is pretty simple, but you have to be careful. Many of the diagrams on here and other sites showing how to do it are incorrect. Wiring the way some of the others do it doesn't hurt anything, but it creates a drain on the battery when the car is off. So, if you don't start the car often, after a couple of days you end up with a dead battery. Here is an example of some of the confusion:
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=1
On page 5 or 6 of that link shows the correct way to do it. By connecting it the correct way, you don't get the battery drain problem and the voltage is very steady. That link should pretty much explain it to you, but I will try to take some pics and pm you within the next couple of days. Do you have an S5 alt yet? I got several offers from people on the forum when I got mine a couple of months ago. I can see if they still have them availiable and I can point you their way if they do.
Kent
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=1
On page 5 or 6 of that link shows the correct way to do it. By connecting it the correct way, you don't get the battery drain problem and the voltage is very steady. That link should pretty much explain it to you, but I will try to take some pics and pm you within the next couple of days. Do you have an S5 alt yet? I got several offers from people on the forum when I got mine a couple of months ago. I can see if they still have them availiable and I can point you their way if they do.
Kent
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12-01-04, 11:06 PM
#8
Originally Posted by gsl-se addict
On page 5 or 6 of that link shows the correct way to do it. By connecting it the correct way, you don't get the battery drain problem and the voltage is very steady. That link should pretty much explain it to you, but I will try to take some pics and pm you within the next couple of days. Do you have an S5 alt yet? I got several offers from people on the forum when I got mine a couple of months ago. I can see if they still have them availiable and I can point you their way if they do.
Kent
Kent
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=5
Kent - I would like to thank you for this information!! I am having a current
draw problem, and my battery is dead in 3-4 days. It got so bad, that I actually installed a permanent trickle charger in my storage bin (where I keep my battery). I thought I had wired something incorrectly, and I have been over the car inch by inch looking for the problem.
When I get the car back, (at the shop getting an 8.8 swap), I will disconnect the alternator plug to see if this indeed is my problem.
Originally posted by KYPREO
Hi I'm new to this forum.
I know what the problem is here...you are following MikeL's website.
His instructions are wrong.
I emailed the guy to tell him, as this is a very costly error, but he didn't reply.
Hooking up a series 4 plug to a series 5 or later alternator will cause a battery drain (usually around 1A), regardless of how you hook it up. It will also prematurely kill the alternator. Interestingly, MikeL says on his website that he got the s6 alt because his s5 alt failed.
Here's the reason.
s4 and earlier alt's are a L/R type alternator. the regulator is switched via ignition, usually through a check relay.
s5 and later alternators are a L/S type alternator. the regulator is always on, as the "s" terminal is connected to the battery positive.
Now, when you put a series 5 or FD alternator into a series 4 or earlier chassis and simply trim the old connector off and adapt it, is that the alternator expects to see 12V+ with the ignition off, but it actually sees 0V, as the ignition is off.
Becuase the output terminal (B) is connected, but the regulator sensed 0V, it will actually try and charge with the battery off, causing a current drain, and potentially fry the regulator.
Now, what you need to do...
all MikeL's other instructions are pretty much spot on with the series 6 alternators, but in addition to that, if you have a series 4 or earlier Mazda, is eliminate the old "r" wire, and run a fresh wire from a constant battery positive source.
I have a series 6 alternator on my Series 3 Rx-7 (australian delivered 1985 model), and I simply used the old plug, soldered the L/dash warning light wire on, then ran a new wire from a battery positive source and soldered that to the "s" wire on the s6 plug.
SIMPLE!
If you look at the factory service manual under the "engine electrical system" section of series 4 and series 5 rx-7s respectively, you will find that the wiring schematic in the alternator section shows exactly what I explained above.
I also forgot to mention that because of the inherent voltage "drop" across the ignition circuit, if you use a s5 or later alt with a s4 or earlier wiring, then the sense signal will be too low, and the alternator output will be too high. I've seen 15.5V coming out of series 5 alternators with low load - this is way too high, and will prematurely wear out the alternator also. Once again, a symptom of incorrect wiring.
Visit this thread on ausrotary for more info:
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...ic.php?t=33676
----Greg
Melbourne, Australia
Hi I'm new to this forum.
I know what the problem is here...you are following MikeL's website.
His instructions are wrong.
I emailed the guy to tell him, as this is a very costly error, but he didn't reply.
Hooking up a series 4 plug to a series 5 or later alternator will cause a battery drain (usually around 1A), regardless of how you hook it up. It will also prematurely kill the alternator. Interestingly, MikeL says on his website that he got the s6 alt because his s5 alt failed.
Here's the reason.
s4 and earlier alt's are a L/R type alternator. the regulator is switched via ignition, usually through a check relay.
s5 and later alternators are a L/S type alternator. the regulator is always on, as the "s" terminal is connected to the battery positive.
Now, when you put a series 5 or FD alternator into a series 4 or earlier chassis and simply trim the old connector off and adapt it, is that the alternator expects to see 12V+ with the ignition off, but it actually sees 0V, as the ignition is off.
Becuase the output terminal (B) is connected, but the regulator sensed 0V, it will actually try and charge with the battery off, causing a current drain, and potentially fry the regulator.
Now, what you need to do...
all MikeL's other instructions are pretty much spot on with the series 6 alternators, but in addition to that, if you have a series 4 or earlier Mazda, is eliminate the old "r" wire, and run a fresh wire from a constant battery positive source.
I have a series 6 alternator on my Series 3 Rx-7 (australian delivered 1985 model), and I simply used the old plug, soldered the L/dash warning light wire on, then ran a new wire from a battery positive source and soldered that to the "s" wire on the s6 plug.
SIMPLE!
If you look at the factory service manual under the "engine electrical system" section of series 4 and series 5 rx-7s respectively, you will find that the wiring schematic in the alternator section shows exactly what I explained above.
I also forgot to mention that because of the inherent voltage "drop" across the ignition circuit, if you use a s5 or later alt with a s4 or earlier wiring, then the sense signal will be too low, and the alternator output will be too high. I've seen 15.5V coming out of series 5 alternators with low load - this is way too high, and will prematurely wear out the alternator also. Once again, a symptom of incorrect wiring.
Visit this thread on ausrotary for more info:
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...ic.php?t=33676
----Greg
Melbourne, Australia
Last edited by Directfreak; 12-01-04 at 11:12 PM.
12-03-04, 11:51 PM
#9
Hey Directfreak,
No problem. When I originally saw your post I didn't see that bit about your discharge problem. You must have edited after I read it. Anyway, I hope that you got it figured out. I am sure that the alt wiring is likely the cause. I think most of the confussion was cause be people trying to use both connecting wires from the S4 or whatever car with the S5 alt. There have been some that have had their alts go out from switching the wires back and forth (could have be a coincidence, though). When you get it wired up right, you should see about 120 mA draw on the battery while the ignition key light is on and then it should drop to about 20 mA once the light goes off (assuming everything else is off).
I think we should put that link in the first gen FAQ to make it easier for people to upgrade in the future. I would be willing to do a writeup if needed, but the writeup on the link is quite good as it is.
Kent
No problem. When I originally saw your post I didn't see that bit about your discharge problem. You must have edited after I read it. Anyway, I hope that you got it figured out. I am sure that the alt wiring is likely the cause. I think most of the confussion was cause be people trying to use both connecting wires from the S4 or whatever car with the S5 alt. There have been some that have had their alts go out from switching the wires back and forth (could have be a coincidence, though). When you get it wired up right, you should see about 120 mA draw on the battery while the ignition key light is on and then it should drop to about 20 mA once the light goes off (assuming everything else is off).
I think we should put that link in the first gen FAQ to make it easier for people to upgrade in the future. I would be willing to do a writeup if needed, but the writeup on the link is quite good as it is.
Kent
01-22-05, 10:14 AM
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Ok, I've been looking at this, i just got my 1st rotary running and was thinking about upgrading the alt. Here is my question - why run a new wire all the way from the battery to the alternator? why not just make a short jumper from the stud terminal to the plug? since they are both going to the battery? So to reference the diagram above on the s5 alt, Can i just make a jumper cable to connect the b terminal to the s terminal without a new long wire all the way back to the battery?
Thanks,
Alvin
Thanks,
Alvin
01-22-05, 10:32 AM
#11
This thread is yet another example of awesome information that pops up on this forum. I'm going to archive it for now, but I am curious - is all of this information the same for the non-SE cars? Or is there more work to be done because of alt mounting position differences?
A writeup would be great, since we don't want to always depend on other forum's data and be cross-linking. Considering what happened to nopistons.org, I'd like to have a local writeup that we can archive here. I'm doing some searching, arciving and FAQ editing on my spare time today, so if anyone sees some long-buried threads that aren't in the archive but should be, PM me to let me know.
Jon
A writeup would be great, since we don't want to always depend on other forum's data and be cross-linking. Considering what happened to nopistons.org, I'd like to have a local writeup that we can archive here. I'm doing some searching, arciving and FAQ editing on my spare time today, so if anyone sees some long-buried threads that aren't in the archive but should be, PM me to let me know.
Jon
01-22-05, 06:30 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Zyrano
Ok, I've been looking at this, i just got my 1st rotary running and was thinking about upgrading the alt. Here is my question - why run a new wire all the way from the battery to the alternator? why not just make a short jumper from the stud terminal to the plug? since they are both going to the battery? So to reference the diagram above on the s5 alt, Can i just make a jumper cable to connect the b terminal to the s terminal without a new long wire all the way back to the battery?
Thanks,
Alvin
Thanks,
Alvin
Originally Posted by vipernicus42
This thread is yet another example of awesome information that pops up on this forum. I'm going to archive it for now, but I am curious - is all of this information the same for the non-SE cars? Or is there more work to be done because of alt mounting position differences?
A writeup would be great, since we don't want to always depend on other forum's data and be cross-linking. Considering what happened to nopistons.org, I'd like to have a local writeup that we can archive here. I'm doing some searching, arciving and FAQ editing on my spare time today, so if anyone sees some long-buried threads that aren't in the archive but should be, PM me to let me know.
Jon
A writeup would be great, since we don't want to always depend on other forum's data and be cross-linking. Considering what happened to nopistons.org, I'd like to have a local writeup that we can archive here. I'm doing some searching, arciving and FAQ editing on my spare time today, so if anyone sees some long-buried threads that aren't in the archive but should be, PM me to let me know.
Jon
I did have inittab add this thread to the FAQ page around when it was first posted. There is good info in here that people need to read. If you look at the teamfc3s link I included before, you will see the massive confusion about this swap. That is because most of the wiring diagrams for this swap are incorrect. I would be happy to put together a write up if you would like.
DirectFreak: Did you get the drain problem figured out?
Kent
11-01-09, 10:48 PM
#14
I realize this is an old thread but I wanted to point something out that I just noticed. On my S5 alternator pigtail, the wires are WG, and WB.
The WG wire has a "I" label on the pigtail and the WB wire has a "+" on the pigtail.
Naturally I would assume the + wire would go to 12v battery power. However, that "+" wire is in the position show to go to "dash" on this diagram that's been linked.
Or is this a + and - imaging for another application?
Plus I added the picture for future minimizing confusion!
The WG wire has a "I" label on the pigtail and the WB wire has a "+" on the pigtail.
Naturally I would assume the + wire would go to 12v battery power. However, that "+" wire is in the position show to go to "dash" on this diagram that's been linked.
Or is this a + and - imaging for another application?
Plus I added the picture for future minimizing confusion!
11-01-09, 11:01 PM
#15
Had a second gen 60 amp alternator in my 83 until a few days ago. Hopefully by Monday or Tuesday of this week, will finish installing a Ford Taurus 130 Amp unit. My stereo has been killin` my electrical system for far too long! LOL!
Last edited by Speeder165; 11-01-09 at 11:09 PM.
