12a to 13b (s5) swap
06-22-14, 02:14 PM
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12a to 13b (s5) swap
For a few reasons I was unsatisfied with how my 12a was running, and one of my longest goals for this car (83 gsl) was to get a 13b running in it. I had not planned to do the swap till next year after college graduation, but I have money, time, and a father who thinks this could be a fun summer project to do together, and I whole heartedly agree.
I pick up a working 13b engine from an 91 FC and a FC transmission as well. I have a bunch of other extras included with these parts.
(SUBJECT TO UPDATES)
S5 parts list:
Assembled engine (mostly)
Transmission
AC unit
Wiring harness
Rat's nest
ECU
Alternator
Oil pan (I think I need the GSL SE one?)
Some other assorted parts as well, will update as I sort through them all. Here is a pic of most of the stuff not on the engine.
12a parts list:
Full working + driving car, albit one that leaks far too much oil
Things are going pretty well in the swap so far, but we are only a few steps in so there are still plenty of things to go wrong!
Currently the car has both engines and transmissions out of the car, and I will be replacing the exhaust as I do this swap, but that to my knowledge is easy and straightforward.
The rebuilt engine was an automatic, and has a flywheel on it for an automatic transmission I believe I need to find one for a manual if my old flywheel doesn't fit the bill.
Here is the list of parts that I think I yet need:
FC oil cooler (I want to be rid of my beehive)
GSL-SE Oil pan
Flywheel for a manual
New Exhaust (I have this stuff in the processes of planning, looking to get engine mostly done first)
A few things to start off.
I know what the green thing is, and where it goes, but I am not sure of it's name, or where I can best buy replacements. I've heard you can cut them yourself if you are careful, but I am not certain it is a good idea. I also have no idea what the component above it is, it came with a few spare parts in the engine.
My biggest questions are if I need a new flywheel and oil pan. My GSL has a flywheel (clearly) and I don't know if I can use that one, or if I should by a lightweight one from Mazdatrix or something. My current oil pan looks exactly like one from a GSL-SE to me, but I don't know if this is true or not.
As far a actually getting the ECU running, everything that I have read says this is a huge chore to get running with a stock ECU. Are there any aftermarket ones that would make this build easier/simpler? I have seen several while going through posts, but I am uncertain if its better to go stock from the 91, or try to put it together with a different one.
I would also like to remove a lot of the emissions stuff if possible in addition to trimming down the nest, although the one from the 91 FC seems much smaller and more manageable. I live in the midwest, and don't have to pass any inspections.
If anyone had advice or suggestions I would love for some more experienced input.
I pick up a working 13b engine from an 91 FC and a FC transmission as well. I have a bunch of other extras included with these parts.
(SUBJECT TO UPDATES)
S5 parts list:
Assembled engine (mostly)
Transmission
AC unit
Wiring harness
Rat's nest
ECU
Alternator
Oil pan (I think I need the GSL SE one?)
Some other assorted parts as well, will update as I sort through them all. Here is a pic of most of the stuff not on the engine.
12a parts list:
Full working + driving car, albit one that leaks far too much oil
Things are going pretty well in the swap so far, but we are only a few steps in so there are still plenty of things to go wrong!
Currently the car has both engines and transmissions out of the car, and I will be replacing the exhaust as I do this swap, but that to my knowledge is easy and straightforward.
The rebuilt engine was an automatic, and has a flywheel on it for an automatic transmission I believe I need to find one for a manual if my old flywheel doesn't fit the bill.
Here is the list of parts that I think I yet need:
FC oil cooler (I want to be rid of my beehive)
GSL-SE Oil pan
Flywheel for a manual
New Exhaust (I have this stuff in the processes of planning, looking to get engine mostly done first)
A few things to start off.
I know what the green thing is, and where it goes, but I am not sure of it's name, or where I can best buy replacements. I've heard you can cut them yourself if you are careful, but I am not certain it is a good idea. I also have no idea what the component above it is, it came with a few spare parts in the engine.
My biggest questions are if I need a new flywheel and oil pan. My GSL has a flywheel (clearly) and I don't know if I can use that one, or if I should by a lightweight one from Mazdatrix or something. My current oil pan looks exactly like one from a GSL-SE to me, but I don't know if this is true or not.
As far a actually getting the ECU running, everything that I have read says this is a huge chore to get running with a stock ECU. Are there any aftermarket ones that would make this build easier/simpler? I have seen several while going through posts, but I am uncertain if its better to go stock from the 91, or try to put it together with a different one.
I would also like to remove a lot of the emissions stuff if possible in addition to trimming down the nest, although the one from the 91 FC seems much smaller and more manageable. I live in the midwest, and don't have to pass any inspections.
If anyone had advice or suggestions I would love for some more experienced input.
06-22-14, 04:28 PM
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Your oil pan will look like a GSL-SE one as they are similar profile, the difference being the latter is off a 13B therefore the right length.
The green thing is a gasket for you inlet manifold and the other thing is a fuel injector. Fuelling wise, maybe consider a carb setup to simplify the project as saves you converting fuel system for a start....
The green thing is a gasket for you inlet manifold and the other thing is a fuel injector. Fuelling wise, maybe consider a carb setup to simplify the project as saves you converting fuel system for a start....
06-22-14, 04:47 PM
#4
I'm assuming that you're putting a naturally aspirated 13B in. At least that's what it appears from the pictures.
Upper intake manifold gasket. Best bet is to buy a new one as they aren't all that expensive. MazdaTrix or Racing Beat are both good places to locate these kinds of parts.
The other part is a fuel injector, the 13B has 4.
The FC 13B front cover does not have the mounting surface for the front engine mounts, thus Siranikos suggestion with the front cover. The GSL-SE cover is required. I used an S4 engine and it didn't require any mods to the cover, I'm unsure if any mods to the cover are required for the S5. Best to read up on it. Racing Beat does carry a premade front mount for this swap or as Siraniko said you can slot and modify the 12A one to work.
Yes, you do need the GSL-SE 13B oil pan and the pickup, the 12A pan may look the same, but the 13B is 20mm longer and a 12A pan won't fit. Either that or modify the FC pan and pickup with the 12A sump, but that might be a bit much.
Personally I would get an aftermarket lightened flywheel as you already have the balance weight from the automatic. Aftermarket flywheels require the use of the automatic counterweight. The manual cars don't come with a counterweight as the balancing is incorporated into the flywheel. These are rather sought after by people wanting to move up to a lightweight flywheel. The counterweight has to be matched to the same type and generation of the engine. You already have the correct one so why not use it?
You can use the stock ECU, but you will need to use the FC wiring harness and adapt it to work with the remnants of your car's harness or build a new one that duplicates a lot of the functions of the FC harness. This involves beaucoup hours of pouring over wiring schematics and wire chasing. It is a lot easier, but more expensive, to just use something like a Haltech or other ECU to run the engine functions and adapt that to your harness (unlike the stock ECU swap, they come with instructions). Which aftermarket ECU you choose depends on how far you want to go with the engine and whether someone near you understands how to tune it to run. If you only plan to run the engine in stock configuration their lower tier (cheaper) ECUs would work fine.
Your next area of concern is the fuel system. You will need to run a pump (and large enough lines) for fuel injection. Since you state your car is a 12A I assume it is carbureted. The fuel lines are probably rusty and not so good by now. You'll want to replace them with lines that are at least the same size as that used in the 91 FC. (rust in the fuel system is a bad thing
) You may be able to source a tank and pump from a GSL-SE as they came with fuel injection or you will need to do some modifications to your fuel tank to put in a sump and the proper pump. Make sure the tank is clean and rust free. Again you have to make sure that the pump you choose to run is rated to run at least the same amount of pressure and volume as the stock FC pump.
There are a lot of threads on removing the rats nest. Be careful not to miss any vacuum ports as a vacuum leak on a rotary will drive you even crazier than one on a piston engine.
Also as Siraniko stated the FC shifter is farther back than the FB so you either have to modify the floor pan for the new shifter position (it's an inch or 2 further back) or shorten the FC trans. There are threads posted on how to do this as well.
My original driveshaft worked, but I ended up having to get a new one right away as the U joints gave up the ghost with the new found power. 83 and up cars have non removable U joints so if you need U joints you will need to replace the driveshaft. I think it's Racing Beat or maybe MazdaTrix that builds new ones with replaceable U joints. The 84-85 uses a different flange at the differential than the earlier cars so you have to get the right one.
For the exhaust you can't top the Racing Beat system. Building your own is a pain and the results aren't usually worth it. The rotary requires heavy wall tubing and specific types of pre silencers and mufflers. (non glass pack) Most build your own systems end up being way too loud (mine is) or won't last under the temperatures and pressures that a rotary will subject them to.
A good heavy duty (new) radiator would also be advisable with a newly rebuilt engine. The old 12A radiator will work, but it's marginal for the 13B if you flog on it at all. The other problem with an old radiator on a new engine is all the years of gunk built up in there, it may not be flowing as well as it should. And ALWAYS use distilled water to dilute your antifreeze or get the premixed stuff. Tap water destroys these things over time and will cause all kinds of headaches down the road.
All of this is why most people say that just using a carburetor on the 13B is far simpler when putting them in a first gen. I do like my fuel injection, but it does get a little bit involved.
Hopefully I've answered most of your questions. Have fun.
Upper intake manifold gasket. Best bet is to buy a new one as they aren't all that expensive. MazdaTrix or Racing Beat are both good places to locate these kinds of parts.
The other part is a fuel injector, the 13B has 4.
The FC 13B front cover does not have the mounting surface for the front engine mounts, thus Siranikos suggestion with the front cover. The GSL-SE cover is required. I used an S4 engine and it didn't require any mods to the cover, I'm unsure if any mods to the cover are required for the S5. Best to read up on it. Racing Beat does carry a premade front mount for this swap or as Siraniko said you can slot and modify the 12A one to work.
Yes, you do need the GSL-SE 13B oil pan and the pickup, the 12A pan may look the same, but the 13B is 20mm longer and a 12A pan won't fit. Either that or modify the FC pan and pickup with the 12A sump, but that might be a bit much.
Personally I would get an aftermarket lightened flywheel as you already have the balance weight from the automatic. Aftermarket flywheels require the use of the automatic counterweight. The manual cars don't come with a counterweight as the balancing is incorporated into the flywheel. These are rather sought after by people wanting to move up to a lightweight flywheel. The counterweight has to be matched to the same type and generation of the engine. You already have the correct one so why not use it?
You can use the stock ECU, but you will need to use the FC wiring harness and adapt it to work with the remnants of your car's harness or build a new one that duplicates a lot of the functions of the FC harness. This involves beaucoup hours of pouring over wiring schematics and wire chasing. It is a lot easier, but more expensive, to just use something like a Haltech or other ECU to run the engine functions and adapt that to your harness (unlike the stock ECU swap, they come with instructions). Which aftermarket ECU you choose depends on how far you want to go with the engine and whether someone near you understands how to tune it to run. If you only plan to run the engine in stock configuration their lower tier (cheaper) ECUs would work fine.
Your next area of concern is the fuel system. You will need to run a pump (and large enough lines) for fuel injection. Since you state your car is a 12A I assume it is carbureted. The fuel lines are probably rusty and not so good by now. You'll want to replace them with lines that are at least the same size as that used in the 91 FC. (rust in the fuel system is a bad thing
) You may be able to source a tank and pump from a GSL-SE as they came with fuel injection or you will need to do some modifications to your fuel tank to put in a sump and the proper pump. Make sure the tank is clean and rust free. Again you have to make sure that the pump you choose to run is rated to run at least the same amount of pressure and volume as the stock FC pump.There are a lot of threads on removing the rats nest. Be careful not to miss any vacuum ports as a vacuum leak on a rotary will drive you even crazier than one on a piston engine.
Also as Siraniko stated the FC shifter is farther back than the FB so you either have to modify the floor pan for the new shifter position (it's an inch or 2 further back) or shorten the FC trans. There are threads posted on how to do this as well.
My original driveshaft worked, but I ended up having to get a new one right away as the U joints gave up the ghost with the new found power. 83 and up cars have non removable U joints so if you need U joints you will need to replace the driveshaft. I think it's Racing Beat or maybe MazdaTrix that builds new ones with replaceable U joints. The 84-85 uses a different flange at the differential than the earlier cars so you have to get the right one.
For the exhaust you can't top the Racing Beat system. Building your own is a pain and the results aren't usually worth it. The rotary requires heavy wall tubing and specific types of pre silencers and mufflers. (non glass pack) Most build your own systems end up being way too loud (mine is) or won't last under the temperatures and pressures that a rotary will subject them to.
A good heavy duty (new) radiator would also be advisable with a newly rebuilt engine. The old 12A radiator will work, but it's marginal for the 13B if you flog on it at all. The other problem with an old radiator on a new engine is all the years of gunk built up in there, it may not be flowing as well as it should. And ALWAYS use distilled water to dilute your antifreeze or get the premixed stuff. Tap water destroys these things over time and will cause all kinds of headaches down the road.
All of this is why most people say that just using a carburetor on the 13B is far simpler when putting them in a first gen. I do like my fuel injection, but it does get a little bit involved.
Hopefully I've answered most of your questions. Have fun.
06-22-14, 09:17 PM
#5
My latest dealings with the 2nd gen stock ECU fuel injection have been pretty straight forward. The 2nd gen section of the forums here on the club have some pretty knowledgeable people there and solving every problem I've had (FI related) seems to be like I said above, pretty straight forward.
Anyways another important factor is the series 5 front covers have an electronic OMP (oil metering pump) that is NOT a direct bolt on to a GSL-SE front cover. If you stick w the stock S5 ECU, without the S5 OMP properly working the ECU goes limp mode (I think, it's been awhile). You can alter your GSL-SE front cover to accept and run the series 5 OMP w some fab work, or tuck the S5 omp off to the side plugged in to the harness to trick the ECU it's actually working while you run a manual S4 omp. Both ways have been done before.
Anyways another important factor is the series 5 front covers have an electronic OMP (oil metering pump) that is NOT a direct bolt on to a GSL-SE front cover. If you stick w the stock S5 ECU, without the S5 OMP properly working the ECU goes limp mode (I think, it's been awhile). You can alter your GSL-SE front cover to accept and run the series 5 OMP w some fab work, or tuck the S5 omp off to the side plugged in to the harness to trick the ECU it's actually working while you run a manual S4 omp. Both ways have been done before.
06-23-14, 07:56 AM
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I'm assuming that you're putting a naturally aspirated 13B in. At least that's what it appears from the pictures.
Upper intake manifold gasket. Best bet is to buy a new one as they aren't all that expensive. MazdaTrix or Racing Beat are both good places to locate these kinds of parts.
The other part is a fuel injector, the 13B has 4.
The FC 13B front cover does not have the mounting surface for the front engine mounts, thus Siranikos suggestion with the front cover. The GSL-SE cover is required. I used an S4 engine and it didn't require any mods to the cover, I'm unsure if any mods to the cover are required for the S5. Best to read up on it. Racing Beat does carry a premade front mount for this swap or as Siraniko said you can slot and modify the 12A one to work.
Yes, you do need the GSL-SE 13B oil pan and the pickup, the 12A pan may look the same, but the 13B is 20mm longer and a 12A pan won't fit. Either that or modify the FC pan and pickup with the 12A sump, but that might be a bit much.
Personally I would get an aftermarket lightened flywheel as you already have the balance weight from the automatic. Aftermarket flywheels require the use of the automatic counterweight. The manual cars don't come with a counterweight as the balancing is incorporated into the flywheel. These are rather sought after by people wanting to move up to a lightweight flywheel. The counterweight has to be matched to the same type and generation of the engine. You already have the correct one so why not use it?
You can use the stock ECU, but you will need to use the FC wiring harness and adapt it to work with the remnants of your car's harness or build a new one that duplicates a lot of the functions of the FC harness. This involves beaucoup hours of pouring over wiring schematics and wire chasing. It is a lot easier, but more expensive, to just use something like a Haltech or other ECU to run the engine functions and adapt that to your harness (unlike the stock ECU swap, they come with instructions). Which aftermarket ECU you choose depends on how far you want to go with the engine and whether someone near you understands how to tune it to run. If you only plan to run the engine in stock configuration their lower tier (cheaper) ECUs would work fine.
Your next area of concern is the fuel system. You will need to run a pump (and large enough lines) for fuel injection. Since you state your car is a 12A I assume it is carbureted. The fuel lines are probably rusty and not so good by now. You'll want to replace them with lines that are at least the same size as that used in the 91 FC. (rust in the fuel system is a bad thing) You may be able to source a tank and pump from a GSL-SE as they came with fuel injection or you will need to do some modifications to your fuel tank to put in a sump and the proper pump. Make sure the tank is clean and rust free. Again you have to make sure that the pump you choose to run is rated to run at least the same amount of pressure and volume as the stock FC pump.
There are a lot of threads on removing the rats nest. Be careful not to miss any vacuum ports as a vacuum leak on a rotary will drive you even crazier than one on a piston engine.
Also as Siraniko stated the FC shifter is farther back than the FB so you either have to modify the floor pan for the new shifter position (it's an inch or 2 further back) or shorten the FC trans. There are threads posted on how to do this as well.
My original driveshaft worked, but I ended up having to get a new one right away as the U joints gave up the ghost with the new found power. 83 and up cars have non removable U joints so if you need U joints you will need to replace the driveshaft. I think it's Racing Beat or maybe MazdaTrix that builds new ones with replaceable U joints. The 84-85 uses a different flange at the differential than the earlier cars so you have to get the right one.
For the exhaust you can't top the Racing Beat system. Building your own is a pain and the results aren't usually worth it. The rotary requires heavy wall tubing and specific types of pre silencers and mufflers. (non glass pack) Most build your own systems end up being way too loud (mine is) or won't last under the temperatures and pressures that a rotary will subject them to.
A good heavy duty (new) radiator would also be advisable with a newly rebuilt engine. The old 12A radiator will work, but it's marginal for the 13B if you flog on it at all. The other problem with an old radiator on a new engine is all the years of gunk built up in there, it may not be flowing as well as it should. And ALWAYS use distilled water to dilute your antifreeze or get the premixed stuff. Tap water destroys these things over time and will cause all kinds of headaches down the road.
All of this is why most people say that just using a carburetor on the 13B is far simpler when putting them in a first gen. I do like my fuel injection, but it does get a little bit involved.
Hopefully I've answered most of your questions. Have fun.
Upper intake manifold gasket. Best bet is to buy a new one as they aren't all that expensive. MazdaTrix or Racing Beat are both good places to locate these kinds of parts.
The other part is a fuel injector, the 13B has 4.
The FC 13B front cover does not have the mounting surface for the front engine mounts, thus Siranikos suggestion with the front cover. The GSL-SE cover is required. I used an S4 engine and it didn't require any mods to the cover, I'm unsure if any mods to the cover are required for the S5. Best to read up on it. Racing Beat does carry a premade front mount for this swap or as Siraniko said you can slot and modify the 12A one to work.
Yes, you do need the GSL-SE 13B oil pan and the pickup, the 12A pan may look the same, but the 13B is 20mm longer and a 12A pan won't fit. Either that or modify the FC pan and pickup with the 12A sump, but that might be a bit much.
Personally I would get an aftermarket lightened flywheel as you already have the balance weight from the automatic. Aftermarket flywheels require the use of the automatic counterweight. The manual cars don't come with a counterweight as the balancing is incorporated into the flywheel. These are rather sought after by people wanting to move up to a lightweight flywheel. The counterweight has to be matched to the same type and generation of the engine. You already have the correct one so why not use it?
You can use the stock ECU, but you will need to use the FC wiring harness and adapt it to work with the remnants of your car's harness or build a new one that duplicates a lot of the functions of the FC harness. This involves beaucoup hours of pouring over wiring schematics and wire chasing. It is a lot easier, but more expensive, to just use something like a Haltech or other ECU to run the engine functions and adapt that to your harness (unlike the stock ECU swap, they come with instructions). Which aftermarket ECU you choose depends on how far you want to go with the engine and whether someone near you understands how to tune it to run. If you only plan to run the engine in stock configuration their lower tier (cheaper) ECUs would work fine.
Your next area of concern is the fuel system. You will need to run a pump (and large enough lines) for fuel injection. Since you state your car is a 12A I assume it is carbureted. The fuel lines are probably rusty and not so good by now. You'll want to replace them with lines that are at least the same size as that used in the 91 FC. (rust in the fuel system is a bad thing
) You may be able to source a tank and pump from a GSL-SE as they came with fuel injection or you will need to do some modifications to your fuel tank to put in a sump and the proper pump. Make sure the tank is clean and rust free. Again you have to make sure that the pump you choose to run is rated to run at least the same amount of pressure and volume as the stock FC pump.There are a lot of threads on removing the rats nest. Be careful not to miss any vacuum ports as a vacuum leak on a rotary will drive you even crazier than one on a piston engine.
Also as Siraniko stated the FC shifter is farther back than the FB so you either have to modify the floor pan for the new shifter position (it's an inch or 2 further back) or shorten the FC trans. There are threads posted on how to do this as well.
My original driveshaft worked, but I ended up having to get a new one right away as the U joints gave up the ghost with the new found power. 83 and up cars have non removable U joints so if you need U joints you will need to replace the driveshaft. I think it's Racing Beat or maybe MazdaTrix that builds new ones with replaceable U joints. The 84-85 uses a different flange at the differential than the earlier cars so you have to get the right one.
For the exhaust you can't top the Racing Beat system. Building your own is a pain and the results aren't usually worth it. The rotary requires heavy wall tubing and specific types of pre silencers and mufflers. (non glass pack) Most build your own systems end up being way too loud (mine is) or won't last under the temperatures and pressures that a rotary will subject them to.
A good heavy duty (new) radiator would also be advisable with a newly rebuilt engine. The old 12A radiator will work, but it's marginal for the 13B if you flog on it at all. The other problem with an old radiator on a new engine is all the years of gunk built up in there, it may not be flowing as well as it should. And ALWAYS use distilled water to dilute your antifreeze or get the premixed stuff. Tap water destroys these things over time and will cause all kinds of headaches down the road.
All of this is why most people say that just using a carburetor on the 13B is far simpler when putting them in a first gen. I do like my fuel injection, but it does get a little bit involved.
Hopefully I've answered most of your questions. Have fun.
You sold me on the flywheel, I'll spring for a lightweight one. I just wish they were not 300+ for what seems to be a fairly simple part.
As for exhaust I have a good friend helping me swap the engines, and he works in R&D at Donaldson and can get me parts at cost rather than retail. He was talking SS pipes with ceramic coating, However, if these won't cut it, I can start looking at RB stuff. Off the top of my head I think the one that fits my car is ~$800, and it is missing one pipe. If I save the 800 on the exhaust, I can spend it elsewhere but there is no point in putting in parts that will just melt.
FI/Carbs then. If I could put my Nikki back on the 13b, and not lose power on the 13b I would be very interested in keeping her that way, or I suppose putting on a fancy carb if it is under about $1000 could easily be in the cards as well. Keeping it carb'd has a lot of appeal to me.
I envisioned something like this:
84-92 13B N/A Rx7 Side Draft Manifold w/ 45DCO...
As for the ECU, I am looking at 1000+ for most models, but this is something that is pretty new to me and I will need to do more research on. I am uncertain that it is a good idea for me to pursue that sort of change if the only improvement is that it is easier.
Anyhow, again thanks for all the advice. I would never be able to get all of this right without this site as a resource.
My latest dealings with the 2nd gen stock ECU fuel injection have been pretty straight forward. The 2nd gen section of the forums here on the club have some pretty knowledgeable people there and solving every problem I've had (FI related) seems to be like I said above, pretty straight forward.
Anyways another important factor is the series 5 front covers have an electronic OMP (oil metering pump) that is NOT a direct bolt on to a GSL-SE front cover. If you stick w the stock S5 ECU, without the S5 OMP properly working the ECU goes limp mode (I think, it's been awhile). You can alter your GSL-SE front cover to accept and run the series 5 OMP w some fab work, or tuck the S5 omp off to the side plugged in to the harness to trick the ECU it's actually working while you run a manual S4 omp. Both ways have been done before.
Anyways another important factor is the series 5 front covers have an electronic OMP (oil metering pump) that is NOT a direct bolt on to a GSL-SE front cover. If you stick w the stock S5 ECU, without the S5 OMP properly working the ECU goes limp mode (I think, it's been awhile). You can alter your GSL-SE front cover to accept and run the series 5 OMP w some fab work, or tuck the S5 omp off to the side plugged in to the harness to trick the ECU it's actually working while you run a manual S4 omp. Both ways have been done before.
2. It is a 83 12a, original engine.
3. Yeah, I know it doesn't fit as is. Looking into the methods of making it do so.
4. Gotcha.
06-24-14, 02:48 PM
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Recently obtained a FC's oil cooler, and a much newer radiator, so there are two parts off the list.
Looking at this for a Carb (weber 45 DCO side draft) This will take out my choke and cruise though, which will be annoying. Is it unrealistic to run my Nikki on the 13b? Or can I just not get enough gas through it to run the bigger engine?
84-92 13B N/A Rx7 Side Draft Manifold w/ 45DCO...
And this for a lightweight flywheel.
RX-7 Flywheel - Lightweight Steel for 83-92 RX-7 Non-Turbo - Racing Beat
I still need to decide how to handle the oil pan, but I think I will order this one from RB. I want to see if I can find one at a local RX7 meet up first on Wed. Haven't been there in a while anyhow.
13B Oil Pan for 79-85 RX-7 12A Conversion - Racing Beat
Still looking into OMP vs premix and how I am getting my wiring harness to go. It seems like it is just simpler to run mostly my 12a harness with a few bits of the 13b grafted in (alt, some stuff for the ac is really it I think), and I believe I can go this route due to sticking with the carb. That being said, if I understand it right it would be pretty easy to get my 12a OMP running in the new oil pan.
After ironing out the last of this plan I am stoked to get this build moving in the right direction. Thanks again for helping a rookie out here.
Looking at this for a Carb (weber 45 DCO side draft) This will take out my choke and cruise though, which will be annoying. Is it unrealistic to run my Nikki on the 13b? Or can I just not get enough gas through it to run the bigger engine?
84-92 13B N/A Rx7 Side Draft Manifold w/ 45DCO...
And this for a lightweight flywheel.
RX-7 Flywheel - Lightweight Steel for 83-92 RX-7 Non-Turbo - Racing Beat
I still need to decide how to handle the oil pan, but I think I will order this one from RB. I want to see if I can find one at a local RX7 meet up first on Wed. Haven't been there in a while anyhow.
13B Oil Pan for 79-85 RX-7 12A Conversion - Racing Beat
Still looking into OMP vs premix and how I am getting my wiring harness to go. It seems like it is just simpler to run mostly my 12a harness with a few bits of the 13b grafted in (alt, some stuff for the ac is really it I think), and I believe I can go this route due to sticking with the carb. That being said, if I understand it right it would be pretty easy to get my 12a OMP running in the new oil pan.
After ironing out the last of this plan I am stoked to get this build moving in the right direction. Thanks again for helping a rookie out here.
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06-24-14, 11:52 PM
#8
Yes a Nikki can work on a 13B but it needs to be hogged out for increased flow, and you also need some kind of intake manifold. There are several options but nothing off the shelf. It has to be customized with an adapter plate or something.
Anyone else noticed the increase in huge pictures on the forum lately? Side scrolling is anoying.
Anyone else noticed the increase in huge pictures on the forum lately? Side scrolling is anoying.
06-27-14, 01:03 PM
#9
Your project looks like it's coming along - I don't know if we've met or not....
I'm in MN as well. Feel free to read through my Turbo FB swap build thread and you'll see how much work the FI swap really is. In the end I'm glad I did it (obviously, turbo on FI is an absolute blast) but it was a ton of work. If you ever need help or guidance let me know!
06-28-14, 09:56 AM
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I though the same thing at the first post on this thread!
Your project looks like it's coming along - I don't know if we've met or not.... I'm in MN as well. Feel free to read through my Turbo FB swap build thread and you'll see how much work the FI swap really is. In the end I'm glad I did it (obviously, turbo on FI is an absolute blast) but it was a ton of work. If you ever need help or guidance let me know!
Your project looks like it's coming along - I don't know if we've met or not....
I'm in MN as well. Feel free to read through my Turbo FB swap build thread and you'll see how much work the FI swap really is. In the end I'm glad I did it (obviously, turbo on FI is an absolute blast) but it was a ton of work. If you ever need help or guidance let me know!As for having met I doubt it, I'm western suburbs and go to the car geeks thing every once in a while, but there are so few 7's and so many STIs that it really isn't that much fun anymore. Looks like you are a solid 60 miles from me. Not that far in reality, but unlikely to pass on the highway.
07-21-14, 02:57 PM
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Updates! I got the engine and trany out, swapped tail housings on the trany, put in a new light flywheel and tossed in a new clutch while I was at it. Put the 13b on the transmission with my 12a front cover (I think this is the right term, the water pump + that casing that covers the oil pump) and blocked off my OMP. After modifying my engine mount it all fits like a glove. (I think) Mounted the new RB exhaust, and the Weber side draft. That carb BARELY fits in the bay, I have like half an inch between it and the passenger side of the engine bay. Had to rerout a coolant hose to my heater.
I have mounts being made for my oil cooler which should sit in front of and below my radiator, more or less where the old AC radiator was. Should realistically have it in later this week. There is a heat index of like 104 today, but my dad is coming over to my place and we are going to pour over wiring diagrams and try to get the electrical/vacuum stuff sorted out. I have no idea what I am doing, but I have plenty of reference material over at Foxed.ca to try to figure it out! It should be easier here than on a stock car, just so much less tubing and wiring, but this will still be hard to sort it all out. I am sure I will post some !smaller! photos with some arrows and questions. Also in a side note, I almost wonder if I should make a new thread so that people opening the thread don't have to deal with those massive starting photos. My browser automatically re-sizes them, and I never even noticed their resolution.
Other tasks that I would like to see done by the weekend is getting my fluids going where they belong and running all the new hose for oil/coolant. Bit of a stretch goal, but it will keep me motivated.
Last thing is fuel. Stock a 83 gsl fuel pump puts out 22 gpm and 2 psi according to what I have looked up. The carter pump I see often recommended for the weber I have puts out 64 gpm at 4 psi. Carter 4070 to be exact. Only runs me 60 bucks, but I am not sure if I need it (I think I do) or if I need to re run my fuel lines (I think I don't with the new pump) Does anyone have some real world advice here? I am a little off the beaten path as far as my car knowledge goes.
TLDR: Need fuel, Oil, Coolant where it belongs + wiring/vacuume and then I need to dive into tuning....
I have mounts being made for my oil cooler which should sit in front of and below my radiator, more or less where the old AC radiator was. Should realistically have it in later this week. There is a heat index of like 104 today, but my dad is coming over to my place and we are going to pour over wiring diagrams and try to get the electrical/vacuum stuff sorted out. I have no idea what I am doing, but I have plenty of reference material over at Foxed.ca to try to figure it out! It should be easier here than on a stock car, just so much less tubing and wiring, but this will still be hard to sort it all out. I am sure I will post some !smaller! photos with some arrows and questions. Also in a side note, I almost wonder if I should make a new thread so that people opening the thread don't have to deal with those massive starting photos. My browser automatically re-sizes them, and I never even noticed their resolution.
Other tasks that I would like to see done by the weekend is getting my fluids going where they belong and running all the new hose for oil/coolant. Bit of a stretch goal, but it will keep me motivated.
Last thing is fuel. Stock a 83 gsl fuel pump puts out 22 gpm and 2 psi according to what I have looked up. The carter pump I see often recommended for the weber I have puts out 64 gpm at 4 psi. Carter 4070 to be exact. Only runs me 60 bucks, but I am not sure if I need it (I think I do) or if I need to re run my fuel lines (I think I don't with the new pump) Does anyone have some real world advice here? I am a little off the beaten path as far as my car knowledge goes.
TLDR: Need fuel, Oil, Coolant where it belongs + wiring/vacuume and then I need to dive into tuning....
07-22-14, 12:05 AM
#12
I see you mentioned doing the front cover swap already...the engine needs to be sitting on its flywheel while you do this or else the Torrington bearings in the front stack will fall from their position and get pinched when the eccentric shaft main pulley is torqued back on. After that its a parts ordering experience your wallet won't soon forget.
07-22-14, 06:11 AM
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I see you mentioned doing the front cover swap already...the engine needs to be sitting on its flywheel while you do this or else the Torrington bearings in the front stack will fall from their position and get pinched when the eccentric shaft main pulley is torqued back on. After that its a parts ordering experience your wallet won't soon forget.
Or do you mean the alignment was sagging a little with the eccentric shaft when I swapped the faces and I torqued the whole thing back together.
07-22-14, 08:27 AM
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Anyhow, I do have some questions. Again, this thread is to help myself as much as it is anything else. If I go and write out what I need to do it really helps me keep myself organized, especially with a project this large. Also sorry about my phone camera, the pics get the idea across, even if they are badly compressed.
Here is my distributor still on my 12a front plate In the wiring Diagrams I can only find one connector for it, I can only find one connector that fits both the location and the 2 male pins. Also Pin A is more oxidized than B, it almost looks like there was nothing there for a few years. This seems ...wrong... to me. Surely I have missed the connector somewhere physically, and I just missed it in the wiring diagrams.
I duno, I'll keep looking at it, but if someone has an easy answer that would be nice.
I new this crab was "simpler" than a niki, but it didn't really hit me until I went and put it in. A is fuel, B is from the gas pedal, and c is choke. I'll need to extend some of the cables to get them to work well, and I am not sure how to set up B, but I am sure there are some great build threads that will cover this, so I will see what I can find.
Edit: https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...equest-657090/
That didn't take very long. I was scratching my head thinking how to get it to actuate. Didn't even think of adding a little plate in there.
I had a few other minor wiring questions but I think my photo is too low res to really ask. That being said, if anyone wanted to come over and trade a 6 pack for some advice this weekend on going here from where I am at to a moving car I would certainly appreciate some help. West suburbs of the twin cities.
Here is my distributor still on my 12a front plate In the wiring Diagrams I can only find one connector for it, I can only find one connector that fits both the location and the 2 male pins. Also Pin A is more oxidized than B, it almost looks like there was nothing there for a few years. This seems ...wrong... to me. Surely I have missed the connector somewhere physically, and I just missed it in the wiring diagrams.
I duno, I'll keep looking at it, but if someone has an easy answer that would be nice.
I new this crab was "simpler" than a niki, but it didn't really hit me until I went and put it in. A is fuel, B is from the gas pedal, and c is choke. I'll need to extend some of the cables to get them to work well, and I am not sure how to set up B, but I am sure there are some great build threads that will cover this, so I will see what I can find.
Edit: https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...equest-657090/
That didn't take very long. I was scratching my head thinking how to get it to actuate. Didn't even think of adding a little plate in there.
I had a few other minor wiring questions but I think my photo is too low res to really ask. That being said, if anyone wanted to come over and trade a 6 pack for some advice this weekend on going here from where I am at to a moving car I would certainly appreciate some help. West suburbs of the twin cities.
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